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1881 census :Poplar Place,
Julia Gibord born Ireland 1848
Kate Gibord born London 1866

This could be Julia Gibbard & her daughter Catherine( Kate ) although it says sister.

1891 census : Leather Lane, Saffron Hill
Julia Gibart Head : born 1851 Costermonger
Mary Gibart Daug : born 1871 Costermonger
Martha Gibart Daug : born 1878
John Gibart Son : born 1889

This could also be them & as it seems Mary was not married when she had her son John in 1889 maybe her mother passed him off as her son !!

Hi Kay, don't know if this helps but as far as I have found out Mary had a sisters ,Catherine born around 1862,she married Alfred Clay. They also had a daughter Julia born 1900.
Ellen br 1871 married Michael Sullivan.
Martha br 1872 ish married to Charles Simmons/Simmonds.
I also believe their mother to be Julia Gibbard formerly Monagin who was married to James Gibbard.
On their mother's ( Julia's ) death cert, it has Michael Sullivan, son- in -law as the informant address for him & Julia as 3 Museum Street, Bloomsbury.

Hope this helps,
Lori

As I said before the fathers name on the marriage cert could quite easly be made up, as it sounds better than "not known"

jax

I don't know , I just keep going round in circles .Maybe 2 gibbards married I just don't know .

So if Gibbard was julias mums maiden name as mentioned on James's birth cert how can Robert Gibbard be her father?

jax

I too had looked at that marriage and this is the 1891 for that family, but I really don't know if it connects?

1891 England Census
about Robert J Gibbard Name: Robert J Gibbard
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Luton, Bedfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Luton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Luton
County/Island: Bedfordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Luton
Sub-registration district: Luton
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Fullen 54 ...family should be FULLER!!
Ethilder Fullen 51
Mary A Fullen 29 ........mar. daug. GIBBARD on image - straw hat machinist
Robert Fullen 21
Ernest Fullen 15
Arthur Fullen 14
Elizabeth Fullen 13
Robert J Gibbard 5
Ethelder Fullen 27
Ethelder Shaw 3
Sarah Roe 86
Sophia Bone 63
George Abrahams 78
Ann Hiffinbottom 73
Rose Bland 10
Mary Ann Inns 80
Elizabeth Makins 11
Hannah Gregory 66
Maria Slough 77
Ann Wiley 67

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1273; Folio 70; Page 16; GSU roll: 6096383

Dea x

It was in reply to the 1888 birth of Julia, not who your Julia's parents were I'm affraid

jax

what do you mean Jax

That Julias parents were William and Eliza 22 yrs is a big lie though

jax

To be honest ,I've been looking at the Mary Fuller marriage and also a Mary Eaton .But it would only be guess work ,that is why I thought if I could get hold of the birth certificates they would have been done by Mary herself .I got my eye wiped because there is nothing on the middle childs certificate ( James) .So I was hoping for some luck on Julia's or even the 1911 census .But nothing doing .

Maybe she lied about her age..


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Births Jun 1888
GIBBARD Julia Kate - Chelmsford 4a 420

Wonder if Robert and John are the same person ?

Luton covers Finsbury ...


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Marriages Sep 1883 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FULLER Mary Ann Luton 3b 756
Gibbard Robert John Luton 3b 756
INNS Othniel Luton 3b 756
TIBBETT Jane Luton 3b 756

So the name Robert on her marriage cert could well be made up if she did'nt know who her father was?

Who are the witnesses on the cert?

jax

Hi All I'm back on line firstly Mike .She had Robert Gibbard on her marriage certificate ,there is no birth details at all .
On her marriage cerificate it say's she is 31 when she got married in 1941 .so I work on the date of 1910/1911.or even 5 years + or -- .thanks to you all for trying to help .And it's good to know that I'm not the only one confused . haha

so was she born 1907??

Name: Julie Armer
Birth Date: 23 Oct 1907
Death Registration Month/Year: Dec 1991
Age at death (estimated): 84
Registration district: Chorley
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 40
Page: 1301


Name: John Herbert Armer
Birth Date: 27 Mar 1910
Death Registration Month/Year: 1980
Registration district: Preston & South Ribble
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 40
Page: 2071

What birth cert I wonder! No trace as far as I can see.
Jan

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1941

GIBBARD Julia - ARMER John Herbert
Preston Register Office or Registrar Attended Preston

Was Robert named as father on Julia's birth certificate or just her marriage?
What names appear for mother Mary ?

Well, they aren't at the Bastwick St address 1911 unfortunately!

on Mary's death certificate in 1922 it say's Mary lived in little Saffron street Clerkenwell.She was a street-seller and a widow of John Gibbard.

The birth certificate says 57 Bastwick street .holborn in the district of Dinsbury.