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Wills ordered from York.

I haven't ignored people's comments. No idea if the John Allan McD in the Royal Marines is mine, the record on FMP doesn't give any info. John Allan doesn't show up on the CWGC website as a WW1 death. There is a John A who is invalided out of the forces in 1902. Could be him. But he died at sea. Hmm. What was he doing at sea? He would have been 54-ish. November 1915. Not found any recorded ships destroyed that day.

No record of death on CWGC site. Is that odd? Should I contact them?

Anybody know if the Royal Navy or Royal Marines or Merchant Navy have records for 1915?

Sorry Jax, don't know why I missed it. Now replied.

Not that it is important or about this thread.....but I sent you a pm a couple of days ago and it still shows as unopened ??

jax

Yes MB, I think we must have the wrong Bernard and son James.

Ellen, the 1851 census is possible if the ages of Catherine and Bridget were the wrong way round.

Fighting with those wills.

Sorry to keep on about Bernard & Mary but this would appear to be the death of their son James b 1834 which would mean that this couple cannot be the ones that you are looking for.

1 1855 TURLEY JAMES mmn HUGHES M age 21 HIGH CHURCH GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/02 1009

Please, someone, remind me how I get copies of wills. The ones identified are clearly relevant. I just can't remember how to order them.

Margaret

Brill MB. Fantastic stuff and thanks. A lot of money then. Not surprised. This family has a lot of accountants and the like in it. Not like my Ag labs and cotton weavers.

I did have Catherine Hargeton's death. Maybe she left a will too. Will look.

I will send for that marriage cert to confirm father of Allan John is John Allan, otherwise all this lot is rubbish, and not worth the risk after all your hard work.

So grateful for your efforts. Will get those wills now, and let you know the results.

Thanks.

Margaret

If these are the details for Bernard Turley, can he really be the correct one?

Marriage:-

29/05/1831 TURLEY BERNARD MARY HUGHES/FR776 M PAISLEY HIGH CHURCH /RENFREW 573/01 0040 0110


Death/Burial (in Catholic Registers on Scotlandspeople)
06/03/1858 TURLEY BERNARD M 82 GLASGOW, OLD DALBETH CEMETERY
died of old age.

James is supposedly born Ireland re census but his parents were married in Scotland. I suppose that they could have returned to Ireland for the births of their sons? I am unable to locate a birth in Scotland for James.

1851
Name: Cathrine Hargitan
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relationship: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Parish Number: 882
Civil Parish: Troqueer
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Millgreen
Occupation: Ag Lab
ED: 22
Page: 45 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 205
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1851_214
Household Members: Name Age
Patrick Hargitan 30
Laughlan Hargitan 24
Betty Hargitan 32
Mary Hargitan 24
Cathrine Hargitan 17
Bridget Hargitan 25
Maryann Himan 5
Cathrine Himan 4

Mary seems to get younger in this census:-

1871 Scotland Census
about Mary Turley
Name: Mary Turley
Age: 70
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 644/2
Registration district: High Church
Civil Parish: Glasgow College
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 136 High Street
ED: 37
Household schedule number: 86
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1871_126
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Turley 70
Joseph Turley 24
William Henderson 30

Michell Library does a search for you for a fee.

The Mitchell Library in Glasgow holds the records of claims made for poor relief in Glasgow. The records are indexed but you have to search in person (I don't think they offer a service to search the records on your behalf but I could be wrong). These records can be particularly useful when searching Irish ancestors as they can give information regarding County of birth and parents names. They also may list children living with the claimant and also those married and how many children they have.

I think that Ellen was thinking that if the Mary on the 1861 census was a widow that she may have claimed poor relief. Claiming relief was often a way for poorer people to obtain either medical treatment or access to the Poorhouse if they were infirm.

Death of Aunt Catherine Hargeton:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Catherine Hargeton
Name: Catherine Hargeton
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 80
District: Camberwell
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: [56]29


also, birth and death of John & Catherines other son:

Births Mar 1891
McDonald Frederick Robert Camberwell 1d 875

Deaths Jun 1891
McDonald Frederick Robert 0 Camberwell 1d 579

Dont know if this is your John Allan McDonald?


Royal Marine Medal Roll 1914-1920
MCDONALD John Allan Gunner RMA/6086(RFR/B/419)

Hi Madmeg,

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941
about John Allen Mcdonald
Name: John Allen Mcdonald
Probate Date: 18 Apr 1916
Death Date: 1 Nov 1915
Death Place: Surrey, England
Registry: London

John Allen McDonald of 19 Thorncombe Road East Dulwich Surrey died 1 November 1915 at sea. Probate London 18 April to Catherine McDonald widow. Effects £400. 4s



England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941
about Catherine Mcdonald
Name: Catherine Mcdonald
Probate Date: 24 Dec 1919
Death Date: 26 Nov 1919
Death Place: Surrey, England
Registry: London

Catherine McDonald of 19 Thorncombe Road East Dulwich Surrey widow died 26 November 1919. Administration London 24 December to Allan John McDonald, Railway Clerk, Effects £5810. 8s

Deaths Dec 1919
McDonald Catherine 56 Camberwell 1d 800


They were living at the same address (19 Thorncombe road) as their son was listed at on 1911 census. Perhaps Catherine was out visiting when the census was taken and John Allan at sea?

Ellen beat me to it. What are the Mitchell library records please? Why might they be relevant here? Where do I find them?

That's sort of pointing to James being born 1835/6, no big deal, but mother is not Elizabeth.

Please do keep looking folks, I'm very grateful.

Can I ask your opinions on the marriage of John Allan McDonald to Catherine Turley in NSW - do you think it's likely than it's my pair, him being a master mariner? And as Catherine McDonald states born Scotland in 1891 and 1901, do you think she was lying on her marriage? Or maybe a mistake was made.

Not that it matters too much, cos I'm pretty confident that my Catherine Turley is the one born Glasgow, mmn Hargeton.

Is everyone else as confident as me?

I'm sure you've all been looking for John Allan McDonald b 1861.

Any ideas on him?

Would the church in NSW be likely to help?

Incidentally, the witnesses at his marriage, Joseph and Alice Gailey, appear to be brother and sister - I've found emigration records for both of them, plus a brother William.

1841
Name: Barnard Turley
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1785
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Glasgow St Mungo
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Sommervils Close
Occupation: F Lab
Parish Number: 644/1
Household Members: Name Age
Barnard Turley 56
Mrs Turley 38
Margt Turley 8
James Turley 6
Joseph Turley 1
John Brown 17
Rody Brown 11
Mathew Mcroy 22
James Bredie 30

1841
Name: Cathrine Turly
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: London Road
Parish Number: 622
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Turly 50
Cathrine Turly 15
Sarah Turly 10

Mitchell library for poor relief records.

1861
Mary makes it to Civil Death Records.
Name: Mary Turley
Age: 66
Estimated birth year: abt 1795
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 644/2
Registration district: High Church
Civil Parish: Glasgow College
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 136 High St
ED: 46
Household schedule number: 6
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1861_98
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Turley 66
Joseph Turley 18
Richard Robert 27
Elizth Hatton 35
Mary Mc Iernut 24