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He may well be, there are the 2 others William & John (subject of the original question) none of which can be found on earlier census returns. If they are travellers they may not want to appear, or used another name, according to the web link this was common.

Yes - I wonder if Mary's father was Frederick, but I can't see Louisa, Emily or Mary Ann pre 1891.

Marriages Dec 1884 (>99%)
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Gosden George Chertsey 2a 57
Griffiths Catherine Chertsey 2a 57
Leary Mary Ann Chertsey 2a 57
PENFOLD William Chertsey 2a 57

Interesting, this is the same location as the gypsy site posted earlier - census form shows West Side, Holy Trinity on the side of it.

Looks like the Leary side of the family were also Travellers/Gypsies doesn't it?

Interesting that there appears to be 3 more Leary's in Chobham in 1891 as below. With Louisa and Emily listed as sisters of Mary Ann - all born Chertsey.

William Penfold was a Brush and? Hawker

1891

Name: Emily Leary
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: N

Civil Parish: Chobham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Lawrence
Town: Chobham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Chertsey
Sub-registration district: Chobham
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William Penfold 27
Mary A Penfold 25
Harriet Penfold 6
John B Penfold 2
Louisa M Leary 17
Emily Leary 12

After posting the above I googled Chobham gypsy, this site could prove interesting - covers quite a bit about the family including John Leary:

http://gypsyjib.wetpaint.com/thread/4348592/gypsies+from+chobham+,+surrey+,+1870

Interesting, near the bottom of the thread they are suggesting Rhoda's sister Mary Ann also married a Leary - William born c 1866 Kingston.

1871 census Rhoda's family?

Mary Baker [Mary A on original]
Age 2
Estimated Year of Birth 1869
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Address Stone Hill Occupation Road [Tent encampment on original]
District Chertsey, Chertsey
Parish Chertsey
Administrative County Surrey
Birth Place Hampshire
Birth County Hampshire
Others:
James 25 Sweeb b Bucks Slough
Ann S 22 b Hants [place illegible?]

On original another tent contains family Harris, born same place as Ann & Mary A. This is the mother:

Emma Harris
Age 47
Estimated Year of Birth 1824
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Address Stone Hill Occupation Road
District Chertsey, Chertsey
Parish Chertsey
Administrative County Surrey
Birth Place Hampshire
Birth County Hampshire

Poss marriage for James:

Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
BAKER James N Forest 2b 1127
Harris Ann N. Forest 2b 1127

James Baker death registered Chertsey Q1/1892 and Angelina Baker death reg Q2/1892. Looks like son Ernest in workhouse Croydon on 1901 census.

Think this may be Rhoda on 1881 census (all births down as N/K):

BAKER, James Jnr Head Married M 30 1851 Sweep
VIEW
BAKER, Eleanor Wife Married F 35 1846
VIEW
BAKER, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 12 1869
VIEW
BAKER, Roda Daughter Single F 10 1871 <<<<<
VIEW
BAKER, James Son Single M 7 1874
VIEW
BAKER, Jorcey Son Single M 5 1876
VIEW
BAKER, George Son Single M 3 1878
VIEW
BAKER, Emily Daughter Single F 1 1880
VIEW

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RG number:
RG11 Piece:
771 Folio:
68 Page:
28

Registration District:
Chertsey Sub District:
Chobham Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Chobham Municipal Borough:
Address:
Gipsys Tents, Chobham County:
Surrey

I know the year is a bit out, but they appear to be part of a Travellers community, with her grandparents also on the site if you look at the original census image.

With no sign of John Leary, I wondered if his family were also Travellers, possibly their roots are in Ireland?

On the 1861 there are 3 Mary ann Rose's working as servants in Oxfordshire , one in Witney , of around 21 years old.... i wonder if one of them is John's mother, unmarried?

I wonder if the family came from Ireland and may have returned prior to 1871.

I did find this death in Chertsey which is probably a complete red herring for a possible sibling for John but couldn't resist it.

Deaths Mar 1871 (>99%)
Leary Frederick 0 Chertsey 2a 18

Marriage cert confirms Frederick Leary as father, occupation Labourer and James Baker as father and a chimney sweep

they sometimes 'stretch' the truth ! (or maybe can't remember exactly)

But on the 1911 census Rhoda says she's been married 24 years, that would make the marriage 1887.

I see their son James born 1891 was James Frederick (for his grandfather perhaps)

Births Jun 1892 (>99%)
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Leary James Frederick Guildford 2a 65
(Woking is in Guildford reg district)

Does the marriage cert confirm the father's name and is an occupation given?

Sophia is the daughter born August 1889 of John and Rhoda

maybe not - unless it was their grandaughter - possibly a second marriage for James Baker - quite a difference in ages of children


1891

BAKER, James Head Married M 49 1842 Chimney Sweep
Slough
Buckinghamshire VIEW
BAKER, Angelina Wife Married F 42 1849
Odiham
Hampshire VIEW
BAKER, James Son Single M 17 1874 Farm Servant
Chobham
Surrey VIEW
BAKER, George Son M 12 1879 Scholar
Chobham
Surrey VIEW
BAKER, Walter Son M 8 1883 Scholar
Chobham
Surrey VIEW
BAKER, Ernest Son M 3 1888
Chobham
Surrey VIEW
>>>>BAKER, Sophia Daughter F 1 1890
Chobham
Surrey VIEW

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RG number:
RG12 Piece:
554 Folio:
137 Page:
9

Registration District:
Chertsey Sub District:
Chobham Enumeration District:
10 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Lawrence

Civil Parish:
Chobham Municipal Borough:
Address:
West End, Chobham County:
Surrey

Yeah thats the one

on the 1901 census there's a Sophia Leary -

perhaps this is her birth -


Births Jun 1889 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baker Sophia Chertsey 2a 55

Married Jan/Feb/Mar 1894 chertsey 2a 59