Find Ancestors

Probably somewhere in this thread two or three people have said: get the birth certificates!

Of course your nan's birth cert will have her mother's name on it. Unless she was abandoned on a doorstep somewhere, her mother registered the birth. (If she was abandoned on a doorstep, nobody would have known what her name was ...)

You're hoping the handful of people out of the millions and millions of people in the UK who *might* have first-hand or second-hand personal info will see your posts. That ain't gonna happen.

If you get the birth certificates for Winifred and Dorothy, say, you will be able to confirm the name of their mother(s), at the very least. We're pretty sure you will find the names of both their parents, which will be the same for the two of them.

You will also have their exact date of birth. Ah, we have Winifred's from her death record:

Name: Winifred May Stevens
Birth Date: 9 Feb 1905
Death Registration Month/Year: Nov 1993
Age at death (estimated): 88
Registration district: Haringey
Inferred County: London
Register number: A50A
District and Subdistrict: 2331A
Entry number: 110

>> This matches perfectly with the birth of Winifred May Jones registered in the first quarter of 1905, and her baptism in March 1905. You now need the birth certificate of Winifred May Jones to be certain.

So if you get, say, Dorothy's birth certificate, you will have her date of birth. And if she died after 1969, her death record will show that exact date (if the person who registered her death knew it). So we should be able to find her death record -- and find out her surname when she died -- and trace back from there to a marriage. And find births of her children. And so on.

I don't see a Dorothy Daisy born around mid-1902 in the deaths index. But we could be more certain if we had her date of birth.

Trust us -- all of this is how you actually go about finding people: by *looking for them* -- not by hoping that someone finds you!

Putting posts on internet message boards is not "looking for". It's "hoping to be found". This thread has ways of looking for, and if you act on these recommendations, there's a very good chance you may find.

The only thing I'm having a problem with is Winnie's birth date.On the baptism it's down as Dec 31,1904. Of course,not everyone knew their exact dates,especially if they had been "adopted".

I think this might be older sister Edith Florence-exact match on birth date:


Marriages Sep 1926
Allen James H Jones Brentford 3a 223
Jones Edith F Allen Brentford 3a 223

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Edith Florence Allen
Name: Edith Florence Allen
Birth Date: 14 Oct 1891
Death Registration Month/Year: 1981
Registration district: Poplar & Bethnal Green
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 14
Page: 1143

Someone asked if you had the marriage certificate for Winifred. Do you?

Good luck,
Maureen

PS-Dorothy Daisy's birth is given as June 1,1902.

M

What am I missing here?!

"Winnie's birth date.On the baptism it's down as Dec 31,1904"

All I see on page 1 is:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Winifred May Jones
Name: Winifred May Jones
Record Type: Baptism
> Estimated Birth Date: abt 1905
Baptism Date: 15 Mar 1905
Father's name: Arthur Jones
Mother's name: Florence Jones
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stepney St Thomas
Borough: Tower

December to March is a bit of a longer than usual wait for a baptism. Where is the December birthdate found?

The date of birth is often written in at the side on the actual register Janey.

I will go and take a look.

Dea x

EDIT:

Yes, clearly states born 31st December, 1904.

Dea x

Janey,

Dorothy Daisy's birth date was 1st June, 1902.

Dea x

Sorry, Janey, I posted that and then immediately collapsed into bed.

Thanks,Dea!

Maureen

I have my nan's marriage cert it says: married 22nd Feb 1936 aged 30 (now does that mean she was born 1905 or 1906?) Her Birthday was 9th or 10th Feb.
It says Winifred May (Jones otherwise Warwick. Spinster living at 30 Spencer Street Finsbury.
No mention of her father, I know that she was adopted out which must have been to Mr and Mrs Warwick and Mrs Warwick died young (think when nan was 11)
Mr Warwick dis-owned nan when she married a poor man, Leonard William Stevens (a ships steward) . on 22nd Feb 1936.

She signed the Marriage cert W.M.Jones

Without her birth cert I don't know if the Winifred May Jones living at 5 Senrat Street, Stepney (Mile End) in 1911, is her or not.
Ref: Reply from Lynne (2nd reply in list above)
But nothing else seems to match up.

Thank You
Marie

Hi Marie - certainly 9 Feb is what she or her family thought her birthday was, because that's what's on her death certificate:

Name: Winifred May Stevens
Birth Date: 9 Feb 1905
Death Registration Month/Year: Nov 1993

It may not have been her real birthday though. It wasn't uncommon for people born back then not to know their birthdays, probably especially if they didn't grow up with their family. My grandfather lost his mum when he was 10 and then lived with his older married brothers and sisters, here and there, until he was grown. He always believed his name was one thing and his birthday was 17 Dec 1900. When he retired, in Canada,he had to get his English birth certificate, and found out he was really born 15 Dec 1901, and his name was quite different from what he thought it was. ;)

So, if your nan was 30 on 22 Feb1936, she was born between 23 Feb 1905 (she was almost 31 when she married) and 22 Feb 1906 (she had just turned 30 when she married).

Neither 9 Feb 1905 nor 31 Dec 1904 fits, quite. But even then, she might not have known her correct birthdate.

It makes sense that she was born Jones and used the name Warwick -- she couldn't have been formally adopted beause that didn't exist at the time, but she was reared as their own child with their name.

I would still go ahead and get the Winifred May Jones birth certificate. The registration in first quarter 1905 would cover a birth on 31 Dec 1904 or 9 Feb 1905, and it's worth seeing what it says. You can't really go any further without knowing more about that WMJ anyway. The birth certificate should connect her up with the mother from the 1911 census.

It's a matter of turning over stones, and having to start with one stone. ;)

Just collecting some odds and ends here about the other Jones children that could help some day ...

Births Dec 1894
Jones Cyril Arthur Mile End 1c 451

Name: Cyril A Jones ?
Death Registration Month/Year: 1967 (December quarter)
Age at death (estimated): 73 (no DOB because before 1969)
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5e
Page: 155

(if he had had his birthday in 1967, the age would match with birth above)

For marriages 1913-1923, the only one anywhere in the right vicinity is:

Name: Cyril A Jones
Spouse: Alice M Taylor
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1922
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1c
Page Number: 663