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Would be greatful of some help with trying to find the father of John Jones ( not sure of his age ) he married Jane ( Jones ) don't have a marriage certificate. Jane was from Liverpool and lived at 11 Dumville St in Manchester, she was born in 1824 ( 1871 cencus )

I have the marriage cert of John Jones ( son of above) and Ann Chase who married on the 11th April 1868, living on Gilbert St Manchester ( John and Jane are on the 1871 Cencus ) with Jane ( John's wife ) John Jones is the father of John who married Ann, he's on the marriage certificate

John Jones junior & Ann were 22 & 20 resp in 1868

there are about 120 John Jones born in Manchestr around 1921!! big surprise to me for sure

Ann Chase

England Marriages, 1538–1973
spouse: John Jones
marriage: 11 Apr 1868 — Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: John Jones
bride's name: Ann Chase
marriage date: 11 Apr 1868
marriage place: Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England
indexing project (batch) number: M09789-6
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 438233

1851 England Census
about John Jones
Name: John Jones
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane Jones
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 1qq
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 156
Household Members:
Name Age
John Jones 28
Jane Jones 28
John Jones 4
James Jones 1
Thomas Brown 43 (brother in law)

Could this be them?

Hi Mel, sorry not sure what you mean by ref ??

John Jones born 1848 had a brother ( Daniel ) who is my grt,grt,grt,grt grandfather. Johns father was also a John and it's his father I'm trying to find on record, guess would be that he was born around 1806

1861 England Census
about John Jones
Name: John Jones
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Jane Jones
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Deansgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 54
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Jones 40
John Jones 13
Daniel Jones 4
John Jones 8

View
Original
Record

View original image

Hi Helen, Yes, thats John, I know know his date of birth , thank you, my grt,grt,grt,grt grandfather, maybe have a chance of finding his father now

The idea is that it's a lot more helpful to copy the census info you're referring to, as Helen has done above for the 1861, than to give a narrative summary of some of the facts. We're all accustomed to seeing them laid out in that format, and that ensures that we see all the info there, and can easily find the record ourselves to look at the image, for instance, and get more details about household members.

Do you know whether the 1851 census Helen posted is the right couple? That would provide a major clue, if so -- a brother-in-law (brother of the wife) named Brown.

Remember that census ages are approximate, and more likely a person was born in the last 9 months of the previous year rather than the first 3 months of the census year (even if the age stated was accurate).

What occupation is given for John Jones Sr on John Jones Jr's marriage certificate?

In 1851, there doesn't seem to be a John Jones born in Manchester c1848 with parents John and Jane.

There's always the possibility that Jane Jones was actually unmarried and father John was a fiction ... or that Jane was a second wife and John Jr's mother was a first wife ...

Hi Janey , yep, the 1851 cenus is correct for John and Jane. Interestingly didn't know John had 3 son's James who's 1 at the time must of died young , Daniel who's my direct line isn't born, he arrived 1855

Hi Janey, John Jones was a Brewer on the marriage cert of John and Ann ( 1868 )

Well ... the John Jones in 1851 with wife Jane, children John and James and b-in-law Thomas Brown (a Chelsea Pensioner) was a mariner.

I'm thinking it's not too likely that is the John Jones who was a brewer when his son John married in 1868. ;)

If John Jones Sr was deceased in 1868, the certificate would likely (but not necessarily) have said so.

No Daniel Jones was born in Lancashire in 1855. Have you identified his birth record? Aged 4 in 1861 would likely suggest 1866; is there other info in other censuses or elsewhere?

I'm not seeing a Daniel Jones born in Manchester around that time. There are two in Liverpool in 1856, a Daniel and a Daniel Arthur.

His birth certificate would give his mother's full name, is the idea.

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Ok, that's brilliant, thank you, not sure whether I have any more options now, maybe you could suggest best approach from here, appreciate your help Peter

Yes, I have Daniel on the 1871 Cencus at 16 in Manchester

Sorry, No I don't have a birth record for Daniel, chances are he was born in Liverpool ?

The 1861 census says he was born in Manchester:


Name: Daniel Jones
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Jane Jones
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England


Jane is shown as born in Liverpool, but the kids say Manchester specifically. Is there a reason to be looking for them in Liverpool?

You'll have to forgive me for bowing out a bit here. Besides the fact that I'm supposed to be working, Ancestry has started playing the stupid trick of sending me to the .com site every time I click on a link at .co.uk, and since I don't pay for com, I keep getting denied access and having to copy and paste links ... and it is making me insane.

So if you would copy the 1871 data for Daniel and the others - ?

Will do, Many thanks again fpr your help

1871 England Census
Daniel Jones
Age: 16 Estimated birth year: abt 1855 Relation: Brother Mother's name: Jane Jones
Gender: Male Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew Town: Manchester County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Deansgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Household schedule number: 195

John Jones 23 Head Warehouseman Manchester
Ann Jones 22 wife Manchester
Leah Jones 2
Hephzibah Jones 7 Months
Jane Jones 47 Liverpool
Daniel Jones 16 carter

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4037; Folio: 103; Page: 34; GSU roll: 846331.

Thanks again patchem , much appreciated

One thing I'm really struggling with is Daniel Jones born circa 1855, and where he married Sarah Kersley born c1857 I'm assuming Manchester but all I can find is marriage register 1883 ( Daniel 8d 205 ) Do I need to send off for the marriage certificate ? to check this