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That's great Tina, thanks for letting us know - it's always good to hear how things work out.
Jan

Good news

Wanted to thank all you great volunteers that helped me in the search for my grandfather William Edward Townshend. Your information has put me in touch with my late father's cousin, who has also been searching for him and other Townshends for some years. Sadly our connection has come about just months after my father died. However, I have now been able to fill in and provide, some missing links and have been sent some great photos and best of all I have spoken to my second cousin, he has lots of stories including one about a child stolen by indians in Canada. (My next project is to see if I can find a name - all I know is the child was born in Canada around the late 1880s. The child would have been William's sibling, born whilst the parents were working in Canada on the TransCanadian railway). My newly found relative and I are arranging a visit for the summer. He has been researching both his and his wife's family tree for many years and apparently has huge files of information. All done without a computer.!! I am still not able to trace any birth registration for William nor his two younger sisters, Ivy and Annie. It seems that all the children were registered apart from the three youngest. Thank you all once again, I am really very grateful. It has given me the incentive to keep on with my ever growing tree. Tina

After all that we still haven't found William have we! best I can find is this:

Name: Leonard William E Townsend
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Croydon
County: Greater London, Kent, Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 373


Name: William Edward Townsend
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Kensington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 121

Maybe??

Marriages Mar 1922
ROZEE Frederick W Townshend Kingston 2a 669
TOWNSHEND Ivy Rozee Kingston 2a 669

Did you try using "Phonetic search surnames" option on Freebmd? Did manage to find this one:

Births Sep 1902 (>99%)
TOWNSEND Annie Elizabeth Croydon 2a 230

Can't pin the other two down though.

Jan

Thank you for your reply. Have spent the last week searching for birth records for William Edward Townshend 1902, Annie Townshend 1903 & Ivy Townshend 1904 but with no result. Looked for marriages for the two girls too. Even looked under Sownshend. Am I likely to find them on other sites or are the same registries used by all sites?

Also his job was reasonably paid.

He had been out to Canada to work.I think divorce in the case may have been possible

Tina, sorry but I really don't know. It would be quite unusual not to register births by this time, but possible obviously. Maybe someone else has a bit more knowledge?
Jan

Dear Jan. 1911 census shows William was born in Croydon which is very close to me, so if I went to the Registry Office could they help me? Was it common not to register children? If so did it affect them when applying for legal docs, e.g. passport? I had always been told that William was in the army in WW2, would they have needed birth cert?

I very much doubt he married Mary Ellen as divorce was so difficult and expensive. Unlikely to have married bigamously as he has his son around who would know about it!
I agree, it is hard to find a birth record for William.
Jan

Just a tip - wasn't clever enough to think of an "S"! I did a search using first name only for Martha senior. I found it using the free 1911 search first. so much better than the subscription site. Then looking at results it just stood out. This is a trick which is very useful from time-to-time.
Jan

Thank you all so very much for your help. At last I can see that
my grandfather William Edward Townshend was born in Croydon and with your help I have traced one of my late father's cousins in one of his old address book. How did you ever know to substitute the T for an S? I thought I had tried all the variations of the Townshend misspelling but never thought it would be shown as Sownshend. I still cannot find any registration of his birth, nor Annie or Ivy. Is it possible that some children were never registered? Also I can't find any second marriage registered for his father James Henry (1863) to his second wife Mary Ellen in 1910/11. As I see it James Henry Townshend (1863) left his first wife Martha and children sometime after the 1901 census when they were all in Croydon. He returned to Liverpool to marry? Mary Ellen and only Harold returned with them to Liverpool. Is this how your read the situation or am I using too much imagination? The fact that I have now traced a definite link with William Edward Townshend's (1902) sister Martha (1901) who married a Pantony in 1921 - their son James Pantony is shown in my dad's old address book - I know I have got the right William Edward Townshend. I would appreciate your understanding of this one. With my thanks.

possible

1881 census - household transcription
Person: TOWNSEND, James Henry
Address: Moor Ditch, Orrell
, David Head Married M 44 1837 Joiner
Orrell
Lancashire
TOWNSEND, Martha Pierce Wife Married F 44 1837
Liverpool
Lancashire
TOWNSEND, Margaret Elizth Daughter Single F 21 1860 Assists At Home
Ormskirk
Lancashire
TOWNSEND, James Henry Son Single M 18 1863 Locomotive Engine Cleaner (Rly)
Liverpool
Lancashire
TOWNSEND, Ralph Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar
Orrell
Lancashire
TOWNSEND, Mary Alice Daughter Single F 13 1868 Dressmaker (Apprentice)
Orrell
Lancashire
TOWNSEND, David William Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar
Orrell
Lancashire
TOWNSEND, Richard George Son Single M 3 1878
Orrell
Lancashire

possible marriage for young martha

Marriages Dec 1921 (>99%)
Axten Albert E Cole Thanet 2a 2505
Cole Sarah Axten Thanet 2a 2505
Pantony Richard Townshend Thanet 2a 2505
Townshend Martha E Pantony Thanet 2a 2505

from find my past
Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919 - soldier details
Name: Harold Rothwell TOWNSHEND Memorial Scroll

Purchase scroll




Rank: L/CPL

Initials: H R

Birthplace: Liverpool

Residence: Farnworth, Lancs

Enlisted: Manchester

Regiment, Corps etc.: East Lancashire Regiment

Battalion etc.: 7th Battalion.

Formed at Preston Sept. 1914-K2-to 56th Bde. 19th Div. at Tidworth. Dec. 1914 to Andover in billets. Feb. 1915 Clevedon in billets. End Mar. 1915 Perham Down, Salisbury Plain. 18.7.15 landed at Boulogne. 22.2.18 disbanded in France.


Number: 36482

Date died: 9 June 1917

How died: Killed in action

Theatre of war: France & Flanders

Supplementary Notes: FORMERLY 17778, MANCHESTER REGT.

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
about Harold Rothwell Townshend Name: Harold Rothwell Townshend
Birth Place: Liverpool
Residence: Farnworth, Lancs
Death Date: 9 Jun 1917
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Manchester
Rank: L/Corporal
Regiment: East Lancashire Regiment
Battalion: 7th Battalion
Number: 36482
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre
Comments: Formerly 17778, Manchester Regt.

the marriage of sister mary

Marriages Jun 1911 (>99%)
Romain Louisa Croydon 2a 594
Stevens Thomas E Croydon 2a 594
Stiller Robert R Croydon 2a 594
Townshend Mary G L Croydon 2a 594

My money is on just moving out. This is his marriage to martha:

Marriages Dec 1884 (>99%)
Miller Emmeline Birkenhead 8a 729
Rothwell Martha Edith Birkenhead 8a 729
Stapledon William Clibbit Birkenhead 8a 729
Townshend James Henry Birkenhead 8a 729

Can't see another.

well done brummie jean

so he has left her with the children

either divorced her to remarry
bigamy or not actually married Mary Ellen