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John Wales
1914-1920
Royal Field Artillary Reg No 60090 Driver
Royal Garrison Artillary Reg No 192472 Gunner

Catalogue Ref: WO 372/20

Hi Kath,

And a late wave back to Fanny~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ xx

Could we have his WW1 details please, we maybe lucky and find something,


Dee x

I have no way of knowing as he died in 1965. None of the family have it.

A passport would normally have place of birth...Did he have one?

This is exactlymy problem. I have been looking for years without success.
Unfortunatly my Grandad's death cert is the kind where you did not have to state the place of birth, unlike lots of others I have. If only there were some documentation that had to have place of birth. I have found his war medal records for WW1 but they do not give any info other than his number and what job he did.

I have looked at it and put the details on here earlier..
But as Dee says it does not mean that William Wales was his real father..He may have been his Stepfather and took his name as many did as he considered him his father....

We have found no census on with the names Elizabeth,Robert,John and Lilian together...This is why we wonder if he was born to a possible first marriage for his mother.

Did I put that OK?Clear as mud no doubt.:)

John was the son of WilliamWales as on his marriagecert. I wish there was a way to scan it to you. I have it on Ancestry if any of you are members. Still no clue to Name for Burma Star.

Is there a name to go with the Burma Star Medal please?
Any idea yet on what Aunt Elizabeths married name was?

Hi Kath,

The problem we have is that your Grandfathers mother possibly mothered Elizabeth, Lilian and Robert prior to marrying William Wales, so unfortunately they would be under a different surname............. this rules out looking for marriages or deaths for them.

No one has managed to turn up the 1901 or 1911 census with John and his father on it, so would it be possible that John was also from a former marriage and just used his stepfathers surname?


Dee x

have a few new snippits of info today. At the funeral last week I was given a box of medals from WW2 that had come out of my Grandad's house years ago. We thought they were all my Fathers. But there was a Burma Star which we have found out today belonged to Aunt Elizabeth's son who worked on the Burma Railway when he was a POW. He never returned but do not know circumstances of his death. We had thought he was in the Navy but I guess he could'nt have been.
Also Aunt Elizabeth lived in a flat near Covent Garden before she went into the blind home.

I have been told by my Uncle that my Grandad's date of birth is 21.12.1899. Also that possibly his sister Elizabeth was a half sister so I guess she could have been a stepdaughter to William Wales. She must have been living in the family home in 1901 as she would have been too young to have been married then. Will try to find out more .........

Kathleen,
You can search free bmd by births of Mothers' maiden names during WW1.
There is a Hopkins, but a daughter.

Thank you so much for looking anyway. We would not be able to find their son either without a surname, He must have been born during WW1 if his father was killed. The free BMD doesn't give a Mother's maiden name.
I will keep looking hopefully

I have alredy checked that one out against WW1 deaths and and I dont think there are any under Naval deaths to suit him.

1 HOPKINS , JAMES Assistant Steward 919843 13/12/1917 44 Mercantile Marine Reserve United Kingdom H. 89. DOUGLAS CEMETERY (ISLE of MAN)
2 HOPKINS , JOSEPH Private CH/2060(S) 26/10/1917 30 Royal Marine Light Infantry United Kingdom Panel 1 and 162A. TYNE COT MEMORIAL
3 HOPKINS , JOHN Able Seaman Wales Z/2852 31/05/1916 20 Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve United Kingdom 19. PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL
4 HOPKINS , JOSEPH Leading Seaman 121489 15/12/1917 50 Royal Navy United Kingdom Naval. 27. 1417. GILLINGHAM (WOODLANDS) CEMETERY
5 HOPKINS , JOHN THOMAS Private CH/2209(S) 26/10/1917 Unknown Royal Marine Light Infantry United Kingdom Panel 1 and 162A. TYNE COT MEMORIAL
6 HOPKINSON , JAMES LESLIE Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class Sussex 3/211

I have clicked on all to double check.
I have also searched the site for every possible death of all Elizabeth Wales possible spouses between 1913 and 1919 under the Naval deaths and found nothing that looks like it could be her husband..

But maybe I missed something...

Waves to Dee~~~~~~~~(BatMansDaughter)

No - I spoke to him yesterday - we thought it might begin with H. I said was it Higgins as I had heard it somewhere but probably relating to someone else and my Uncle said Yes I think it was. He has not got a very good memory now so it's difficult. I don't think it was Higgins as I have looked into that in previous years.
I think all the family must have been London based because My Grandad had a London accent and Aunt Elizabeth had no regional accent. I am just looking up the war years marriages and there is one I have just seen Oct.Nov.Dec 1914 Elizabeth J Wales to Hopkins in Croydon. Will try out the name Hopkins on my Uncle & Mum and see if it rings any bells.

So you think they were older than John ?

If only you knew Elizabeths married name,that would be the break through point we need here I think.....

Any chance Uncle Bob could remember it please?

Elizabeth died before 1962 because that was when my Father (John William Harry Wales) died. His Aunt died a good few years before that. Her husband was killed in WW1. She never remarried.

I am guessing Lilian & Robert were born in the 1890's

Any ideas about what years Robert and Lilian might have been born please?

Hi Kath,

I wonder about this;


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1888 (>99%)
-------------------------------
WALES Elizabeth Jane Mile End 1c 472



Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
-----------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1915 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------

Lawrence Thomas A Wales Bethnal G. 1c 560
Wales Elizabeth J Lawrence Bethnal G. 1c 560



England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Elizabeth Jane Lawrence
Name: Elizabeth Jane Lawrence
Birth Date: 24 Apr 1888
Death Registration Month/Year: 1971
Registration district: Colchester
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 1681



Does the surname Lawrence ring a bell??



Dee x

I have one tree with my Grandad on it. His name was only John (not William) Wales. I have not been able to verify where he was born. His sister Elizabeth was about 10 years older. She married in WW1 to a seaman who was killed in the war. They had one son who also went in the navy and was killed in WW2. Aunt Elizabeth lived in a flat in London and later went into a home for the blind (this would be in the 1050's) possibly in Essex. She died in Whipps Cross Hospital of Hodkinsons disease possibly late 1950's. My Uncle said Lilian (or Lilie) emigrated to Australia after WW2. Do not know if she was married. She had lived in Kingston on Thames at one time. Brother Robert (do not know if he was married) lived in Peckham. Lost his legs in motor bike accident. Do not know when he died. Have just phoned my Uncle Bob (john Wales's son) and he said his Father was not born in Leeds. He thinks his birthday was 21st December. Uncle Bob is over 80 and his memory is not so sharp now) My Grandad was married twice, having been widowed at 26.