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just to note mentions of the postcard on line


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=853-rrf&cid=-1#-1

[no title or date] RRF/1988.14
Contents:
Postcard photograph of Sgt A. Charman DCM 'Hero of the Mons Retreat' with citation.

http://warwickshireregimentmedals.blogspot.com/2011/08/alfred-charman-dcm.html

digital image of both sides of postcard

just wanted to go back to the beginning and try to sort out who Alfred was ...

the second Anglo-Boer War started on 11 october 1899

if Alfred stowed away on the first ship when he was 17 he must have been born in 1882

if he was the one born in 1880 then he was old enough to fight in 1899

there were 4 Alfred Charmans born 1881 to 1883, all in the south ( Eastry, Croydon, Dorking, Pancras )

Alfred in Eastry Sep 1881 ... died 1882 Eastry
Alfred Jonathan in Croydon in Mar 1882 ... in Croydon in 1911
Alfred in Dorking 1883 ... in Dorking in 1911
Alfred Thomas in Pancras 1883 ... died 1884 Pancras

the military one in 1911

MILITARY CHARMAN ALFRED 1881 30 Lichfield Staffordshire

but a census age of 30 in 1911 would mean he was old enough ( 18 or maybe 19 ) to be in combat in Oct 1899

in 1891 there was this Alfred Charman, the one born in Alcester in 1880 no doubt, still too old to be too young in 1899

Name: Alfred Charman
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Arthur B Charman ( born Redditch )
Mother's Name: Ann Charman
Gender: Male
Where born: Redditch, Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Kings Norton

however he is missing from the 1901 census

possibly he stowed away on a ship going to SA before the formal outbreak of the war ?

being in the Warwickshires does not mean he was from that area ... there were two A Charmans killed in WWI who were in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment ( just for example, both too young ) both of whose parents were in Horsham ( one was 'native of Southampton' )

so I think it is most likely he was not from the Birmingham area



Phyllis McGuire in 1911

MCGUIRE PHILYS 1903 8 Solihull Warwickshire
daughter of John Thomas and Emily Jane

JT McGuire married EJ Pickersgill 1901 Leeds

MCGUIRE Phyllis 1903 F 1921 Liverpool Canada Quebec
travelling with Cassie M 1916 ( error, 1906 per 1911 census ) and Emily Jane 1866

http://search.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-1169E46/gsearch/Births,Marriages,Deaths#form

Groom Name: Leonard Robert Fraser
Place Nelson
Reg. Number: 1924-09-280689 Copy Available
Bride Name Phyllis Mcguire
Date: 1924 8 14 (Yr/Mo/Day)
Event: Marriage
Microfilm #: B13748 (GSU # 2074318)

no birth in England or BC, possibly he was Scottish ?


I think the postcard itself may have been something a lot of people had who were not related, anyone local in Birmingham might have sent it to Phyllis for instance.

If you have a card sent to her in Saskatchewan it must have been after her marriage so you had her married name ? if not this may help somehow ... I am not having any luck finding more information and Fraser is not an uncommon name ...

there are 9 listings for Fraser in Moose Jaw, you could always try :-)

http://www.canada411.ca/search/?stype=si&what=fraser&where=moose+jaw+sk

I see that Carol was way ahead of me with the postcard of Alred. I'm hoping some family member will want it back and I will gladly send it on.

You all seem to be having so much fun reaearching.

Dianne

Dianne - in 2014, BC and SK's 1921 census should be released. Maybe it'll have some clues re family connections.

Philip please remove that email address from your post, it is unwise to put even one's own email address on the internet like this, and it is certainly against the rules here to put someone else's on this site

you can provide that information to Carole by clicking 'send message' beside her post and sending her a private message

that is also the best way to be sure the new information in this thread reaches her as her post is several months old now and she may not be looking for replies

I only noticed because after months of not using this site I have been using it again and lo and behold up there popped this thread in 'my threads' because I had posted in it back then

if her email address in her account is current she will receive a notice by email of a private message but no notice is sent of replies in threads

of course Carol can easily contact Dianne through the private message system here in any event ... and Dianne you can contact Carol that way as well

Philip please do use the 'edit' link on your post to remove that email address ... and also her full name ... since that too is personal information that should not be posted here ( whether or not the poster has ... wisely ... chosen not to disclose it from their account details )

As he was a regular soldier before WW1 and was not killed in that war then he probably stayed in the arm after 1920, So his army service record will not be available on line.

Roy

I also have the postcard of Alfred Charman, hero of the Mons retreat, with his story on the back from an article of his life written by the Birmingham Evening Mail. I picked it up in a thrift store in Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada last year. With it are quite a few postcards written to a Phyllis McGuire who was living in Sparkhill, Birmingham in 1916, and later in Small Heath. By 1918 she had moved to Nelson, BC and the last card was sent to her in Moose Jaw, Sask. Canada. I am interested in knowing if Alfred Charman and Phyllis were related, since she had obviously kept all the cards for a very long time.As some of your replies indicate it seems that Alfred Charman was born in Aston, Birmingham in 1880, and was married there in 1911. I understand that a Phyllis McGuire was also born in Aston in 1902.

I also was born in Birmingham, went to school in Sparkhill and later taught in Aston. After I emigrated to Canada in 1966 my husband and I lived for several years in Nelson, a town with a population of only 10,000. Then I lived in Abbotsford, where I picked up the cards, for many years. It almost seems as though Phyllis a I went along the same paths, though I went fifty years after she did. Strange.

I also have the postcard of Alfred Charman, hero of the Mons retreat, with his story on the back from an article of his life written by the Birmingham Evening Mail. I picked it up in a thrift store in Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada last year. With it are quite a few postcards written to a Phyllis McGuire who was living in Sparkhill, Birmingham in 1916, and later in Small Heath. By 1918 she had moved to Nelson, BC and the last card was sent to her in Moose Jaw, Sask. Canada. I am interested in knowing if Alfred Charman and Phyllis were related, since she had obviously kept all the cards for a very long time.As some of your replies indicate it seems that Alfred Charman was born in Aston, Birmingham in 1880, and was married there in 1911. I understand that a Phyllis McGuire was also born in Aston in 1902.

I also was born in Birmingham, went to school in Sparkhill and later taught in Aston. After I emigrated to Canada in 1966 my husband and I lived for several years in Nelson, a town with a population of only 10,000. Then I lived in Abbotsford, where I picked up the cards, for many years. It almost seems as though Phyllis a I went along the same paths, though I went fifty years after she did. Strange.

Carol,

If you are determined to unite the documents with the said family, why not send for the death cert which will at least bring you forward to 1955, maybe a useful address, or even perhaps a grandchild registering the death.

Annx

Thanks - I did see her - and also an Olga in 1918 on someone's tree. Will have to call it a night - my bedtime is nigh - so will resume tomorrow.

Good night all and thanks again!

You have limited your tree search to 1914-1923 .... Olga who appears to be daughter of (an) Alfred was born 1912 and is in a tree here as I noted above, just in case you didn't notice .........

Phew you lot! You've certainly given me a plenty to go at. Meantime, I've found some Charman births in B'ham for the period 1914-1923, including one in Aston, by searching Charman trees, so now will endeavour to contact them and find out what happened to our hero (good-looking guy with lovely curly hair!).

Thanks everyone

the delete key is your friend, lol

if only my house were as neat as my postings ...........

Crikey Chrissie.......bl**dy succinct! lol

I will now scurry away bone head bowed low and delete! sobs!

Annx

there were births to the 1911 marriage

Births Dec 1912
CHARMAN Olga M Docker Aston 6d 835
Births Jun 1916
Charman Maisie Docker Aston 6d 988

and someone does have Olga in a tree here at this website

there are several Alfred Charmans in wwi service records but none with birth county or residence in the right area

there are two medal cards for him at Ancestry, with regimental numbers 6061 and 6856 (Royal Warwickshire Regiment)

nothing to match in service or pension records

that is indeed true Ann ............. unless he didn't tell his superiors, or the person filling out the forms just didn't know, lol


if you will forgive me I am going to make that census info legible and succinct


CHARMAN, Arthur B Head Married M 26 1855 Needle Straightener Feckenham Worcestershire
CHARMAN, Ann Wife Married F 26 1855 Needle Maker Redditch Worcestershire
CHARMAN, John W Son Single M 4 1877 Feckenham Worcestershire
CHARMAN, Ada Daughter Single F 2 1879 Feckenham Worcestershire
CHARMAN, Alfred Son Single M 0 1881 Feckenham Worcestershire <<

Registration District: Alcester
Sub District: Feckenham
Civil Parish: Feckenham (Worcs)
Address: Redditch Road, Feckenham (Worcs)
County: Warwickshire


Carol those are names you can search familyi trees for here at this website

Anyone got ancestry to search WW1 service records, they would hold the NOK if survived.

Annx

If that is him in Barracks 1911 on the night of 2nd April, then the March marriage does not fit??

Annx

Thank you all for the info. I think the Aston one is most likely him, as my relative in the Warks Reg. also came from Aston, so they maybe knew each other.