Find Ancestors

My mother Ethel Joan Down Hunstable was born in 1920 (14 Nov) in Clochfaen Hall ,Llangurig,Montgomeryshire.Her birth certificate shows her father as William Hunstable and mother as Susan Down Hunstable. 
Clochfaen Hall was the home of Harry Lloyd Lloyd Verney and Lady Joan Elisabeth Mary Lloyd Verney (who my mother was named after) .William Hunstable and Susan Down Hunstable were Gardener And Cook to the Lloyd Verney family at Clochfaen Hall in 1920
In 1910 Harry Lloyd Verney was deputy Master of the household of Edward VII and then Groom in waiting to George V and in 1919 he also became the private secretary to Queen Mary .At that time Lady Joan Lloyd Verney was Lady in waiting to Queen Mary. When in London the Lloyd Verney family lived at 1 Rutland Gardens and at Buckingham palace.They also lived at 14 Hinde street,Manchester square W ,and at Carriden house,Bo'ness .
Can anyone helpme find my grandparents

Not sure what you mean about finding your grandparenst. You seem to know a lot about them already.
You can find their marriage on FreeBMD and then work back from there. You will need to buy their marriage cert for ages and fathers names

so they used mmn as part of Ethels names
Name: Ethel J D Hunstable
Mother's Maiden Surname: Down
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1920
Registration district: Newtown
Registration county: Wales
Volume Number: 11b
Page Number: 234

VERNEY, Harry Llyod Lloyd Head Married M 39 1872 Groom In Waiting To The King Esher Surrey VIEW
CANNON, Annie Servant Single F 27 1884 Housemaid Windlesham Surrey VIEW
CARTER, Daisy Servant Single F 17 1894 Kitchenmaid Botolph Claydon Bucks VIEW

Address:
1 Rutland Gardens County:
London

Ethels marriage in 1938 has her surname as Hunstable or Davies . what is the signficance of that ??

this is on ancestry
Susan Joan Down
Birth About 1900
Parents & Siblings
Spouse & Children
William Frank Hunstable (1900-)
Living Hunstable
Timeline 1900
Birth
.

I think the problem lies in the absence of a marriage record for Ethel's parents

no records at all showing for William Hunstable

There is NO record of any sort on Ancestry for the name William Hunstable

No record, either, on 1911 census

The name seems to be primarily from North America

What is the exact wording re the mother on the birth cert?

Cannot find Clochfaen Hall in 1911. This is the only reference to the name I can find.

DAVIES, Edward Head Married M 56 1855 Farmer Montgomeryshire VIEW
28 DAVIES, Sarah Jane Wife Married
20 years F 45 1866 Montgomeryshire VIEW
28 DAVIES, John R Son Single M 17 1894 Farmers Son Working On Farm Montgomeryshire VIEW
28 DAVIES, Margaret Mary Daughter Single F 19 1892 Farmers Daughter Dairy Work Montgomeryshire VIEW
28 DAVIES, Anne Jane Daughter F 10 1901 School Montgomeryshire VIEW
28 HUGHES], William Servant Single M 46 1865 Farm Labourer Montgomeryshire VIEW
28 MILLS, Richard Thomas Servant Single M 19 1892 Waggoner On Farm Montgomeryshire VIEW


Address:
Clochfaen Isaf Llangurig Llanidloes County:
Montgomeryshire


EDIT: From googling info on the Hall it turns out that this is the farm next door.

no marriages on Scotlands People so could they be Irish?

The Welsh for Hall is PLAS............you might find it as Plas Clochfaen

There is this one

LOVELL, Thomas Head Married M 49 1862 Game Keeper Hampshire Hannington VIEW
LOVELL, Frances Wife Married
18 years F 50 1861 Hampshire Amport VIEW
LOVELL, Cecil B Son Single M 17 1894 Carpenter London Marylebone VIEW
LOVELL, Esther F Daughter Single F 15 1896 Montgomery Llangurig VIEW
LOVELL, Ada F M Daughter F 11 1900 School Montgomery Llangurig VIEW
LOVELL, Dorothy A Daughter F 7 1904 School Montgomery Llangurig VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
33750 Reference:
RG14PN33750 RG78PN1947 RD616 SD1 ED12 SN29

Registration District:
Newtown Sub District:
Llanidloes Enumeration District:
12 Parish:
Llangurig

Address:
Old Clochfaen Llangurig Llanidloes County:
Montgomeryshire

Thanks for that Flick but i still can't locate it unfortunately

FROM A TREE ON ANCESTRY
Susan Joan Down
Birth About 1900
Death
.Parents & Siblings No Father
No Mother
Spouse & Children William Frank Hunstable (1900-)
Living Hunstable (-)
Timeline 1900
AboutBirth
..Family Members Parents
No Father No Mother
.Show siblings
Hide siblings .
Spouse & Children
William Frank Hunstable 1900 –
Living Hunstable

.

A BRIEF HISTORY AND GALLERY OF THE CLOCHFAEN
I. CLOCHFAEN – AN ANCIENT HABITATION

The Clochfaen, the late Victorian house, circa 1904.
What was there architecturally at Clochfaen in 1913 for Benson to work upon? J R Stirk and R W D Fenn (Montgomeryshire Collections, 1987) re-examined some old questions around the origins of Clochfaen.
What does Clochfaen mean? “Cloch” means “bell” and “faen” means stone. Fenn believes that the house took its name from the ridge, “Esgair Clochfaen”, and not vice versa, on the ground that the names of geographical features generally preceded place names and house names.
The more romantic Victorians had other theories. Edward Hamer and Howel William Lloyd, the Llangurig Parish historians of the 1870’s, postulated that the word “Clochfaen” was descriptive of a bell-shaped rotary quern, “Y Clochfaen”, which remains at the Clochfaen house to this day. Such querns or hand mills were in use in Britain from pre-Roman times until a couple of hundred years ago, and the Victorian suggestion is perhaps as improbable as suggesting that Kenwood is named after the famous mixer! Undoubtedly the quern can have nothing to do with the name of the neighbouring farm, Clochfaen Isaf. Further, the rotary quern, while a fascinating relic, is not unique, and it is hard to see why a domestic implement which was once in common use would give its physical description to a place. A quern looks like a stone bell, but obviously is not one.

Chevalier Lloyd
“Y Clochfaen”
Arms of Lloyd of Clochfaen



A further suggestion from Hamer and Lloyd and Colonel George Hope Lloyd Verney (Description of Llangurig Church, 1892) is “bubbling stone” or, alternatively, a place of bubbling springs; and “stone of worship” is put as a possibility by the great eclectic and eccentric historian of upper Powys, the colourful Chevalier Jacob Youde William Lloyd, historian, philanthropist and religious controversialist, owner of the Clochfaen Estate from 1864 until his death in 1887. His wide ranging History of Powys Fadog was published in six volumes from 1881.
The late G.G. Evans, noted expert on Welsh place names, pointed out that “carreg ateb” is the name of a rock face believed to cause an echo, an answering stone. In this context he believed that Clochfaen referred to some kind of resonance, connected with some aspect or other of the local topography. In this he may have been inspired as the valley between Clochfaen and Voel Curig is highly resonant, and on a quiet evening with a favourable breeze you may hear the river Wye running over its rocks and stones.
The real significance of the quern, “Y Clochfaen”, is the age of the habitation which it indicates. “Y Clochfaen” was recorded in Hamer and Lloyd’s Llangurig Parish History (1875) and has been taken to be pre-historic. The Royal Commission Inventory of Ancient Monuments in Montgomeryshire (1910) recorded several quern stones shown to the inspectors by Harriet Julia Morforwyn Lloyd Verney, the Chevalier Lloyd’s niece and Harry Lloyd Verney’s mother. Some of these had been used at Clochfaen as garden tables and photographs of the 1890’s show the Princes Cheroon and Amorolat of Siam seated beside them behind the old Victorian house. Several other pre-historic artefacts are recorded as having been found at Clochfaen in the nineteenth century. At the far western end of the Estate, on the same ancient track network which passes through the Clochfaen grounds, lies the Cistfaen, a cromlech or reputed burial mound.
In her memoirs, Lady Joan Verney recalled:
“On one of the highest hills at the end of the Clochfaen Estate stood a group of large rocks known as “The Stones.” It was reputed to be Druidical in origin and some years ago some English archaeologists wished to dig and find out whether they marked the place of..graves of the ancient British warriors. But the feelings of the inhabitants ran so high in the matter that they had to abandon the project as force would certainly have been used had they persisted. The Welshmen firmly believed that ill luck would be caused by interference with The Stones...”
The late E T Stirk was correct to see the significance in the locally famous holly tree which stood on the bank of the hillside behind the Clochfaen Uchaf farm house of 1810. Hollies also have a sacred significance in folk lore.

Morforwyn Lloyd Verney
Old Clochfaen, circa 1888
Colonel Lloyd Verney

Colonel Lloyd Verney



“This gigantic and magnificent tree, in a good state of preservation, measures 28 feet in girth, probably one of the greatest and tallest in the Principality.” So wrote Drivers Jonas, reputable Chartered Surveyors, in the Clochfaen Estate sale particulars of 1921. They omitted however to mention that the tree was by this date held together by iron bars and bands which must have represented a significant project for the Clochfaen Estate blacksmith. The tree itself was destroyed by a tornado in 1954. Only the iron bars and bands now remain. The local newspaper recorded the “great gale” of November 24th, 1954:
“PASSING OF A LANDMARK – The severe gales of this winter have destroyed a well known landmark at Clochfaen Hall, Llangurig – a giant holly tree reputed to be the largest in this country and which is recorded as being 700 years old. It was about 30 feet around its base and in recent years [pre 1921], owing to signs of decay, had been strengthened by iron rods. Cut in the bark on the trunk were initials and dates ranging back to the 18th Century....”

The Great Holly Tree, circa 1947.
Stirk and Fenn observed that the evidence for the medieval origins of a house at Clochfaen belongs to literature rather than to archaeology or history. A fragmentary and somewhat flattering verse of a 15th century bard (from the Lloyd family dedication – to Ieuan ab Gruffyd ab Hywel Lloyd of Clochfaen, and his wife, Gwenllian – this verse can be dated circa 1430) runs as follows:
“

Thanks for all the info All I have are my mothers birth and marriage certificates---Birth 14 Nov 1920at Clochfaen LLangurig
--Name Ethel joan Down ---Father William HUNSTABLE(gardener)---Mother Susan HUNSTABLE formally Down---Informant Susan Hunstable Clochfaen Llangurig --registered on 18 Dec.
On marriage cert Ethel Joan Down Hunstable otherwise Davies,this time the father is given as Frank Hunstable--
The Davies Family lived on a smallholding on the Clochfaen estate and Ethel was handed over to them in Dec 1920.
Ethel 91 this year is just out of hospital after four weeks of pneumonia,she sends her regards to you all.

I am thinking here that the birth details are maybe an invention and that she was actually the off spring of one of the family in the big house with a farm girl or servant of some sort or a farm boy if she was the child of one of the female children. I haven't looked into the details of the family and what children there were but it is worth looking into. The name Hunstable just doesn't exist anywhere in the area and if she was the child of a married couple working there why would she be handed over to be raised by another family.
I think you are going to have a job to find out the real facts here.
Maybe the 1921 census willl throw some light onto it if you can wait that long.