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I have to go out today but will check in where I can.

tree ourfamily/2010


purpose to find birth certificate and true family harold tudor jones born c1901.

He is a foster child 1911.
it is probable he took on foster father's name.

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
about Harold T Jones Name: Harold T Jones
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Age at enlistment: 18
Residence: 2 Wellington St, Shotton
Document Year: 1916
Regimental number: 13876
Regiment Name: RFA
Number of images: 37
Does next of kin say John Jones father
Choccy eliminates this one below



Mary Jane Jones died 14 july 1912
Peel Memorial Home Overton
age 62 widow of harold tudor jones joiner
aortic aneurism and syncope
informant nurse Jane lloyd present at death peel memorial home

1911 Address: Turning Row Overton Ellesmere
JONES, Mary Jane Head Widow F 61 1850 Charwoman Overton Flints
JONES, Harrold Tudor Foster Son M 10 1901 Wrexham Denbs

She is a widow and starts to reply to thequestion re the length of the present marriage
unfortunately she then crosses it out together with the info about numder of children she has born and how many are living and died.


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Harold Tudor Jones Name: Harold Tudor Jones (senior)
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 45
District: Ellesmere
County: Flintshire, Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 419
death cert on ancestry
informant wife
cause of death pulmonary tuberculosis
irnmonger and joiner

1901 census - household transcription
Person: JONES, Hard Tudor
Address: Canister Hall, Overton (Flint)
JONES, Hard Tudor Head Married M 40 1861 Joiner Wrexham Denbighshire
JONES, Mary Jane Wife Married F 52 1849 Bangor Flintshire


marriage
Year of Registration: 1894
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Ellesmere
County: Flintshire, Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Harold Tudor Jones 1894 Ellesmere Flintshire, Shropshire
Mary Jane Jones 1894 Ellesmere Flintshire, Shropshire
marriage cert on ancestry
sept 18 1894
he was a soldier age 34
she was age 40
harold's father is robert jones coach builder
mary jane's father is josiah Jones bootmaker

1871 Wales Census
about Harold T Jones Name: Harold T Jones
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Gourton
Ecclesiastical parish: Wrexham
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Bellis 70
Edward Bellis 36
Margaret Booth 30
Anne Bellis 17
Harold T Jones 11
William Booth 6
John Kennedy 21

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Harold Tudor Jones Name: Harold Tudor Jones
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Wrexham (1837-1974)
County:

Even if just for elimination:

Births Sep 1900
Tudor Harold William Oswestry 6a 673

Births Jun 1902
Tudor Harold Oswestry 6a 704

I can account for Harold William in the 1911, but not Harold 1902 - no obvious death for the latter.

That was my other thought that it could be his birth name.
Maybe from a sibling of HWT senior and named for an ancestor.

This is interesting as there is an Overton link with others in the household.

He is
a joiner which could be on the way to coach builder

1881 census - household transcription
Person: JONES, Harold F
Address: Tanners Row, Overton (Flint)
WALKER, John Head Married M 47 1834 Labourer Worthenbury Flintshire Wales
WALKER, Ellin Wife Married F 45 1836 Labourer Wife Overton Flintshire Wales
WALKER, Ellen Daughter Single F 18 1863 Washing Overton Flintshire Wales
WALKER, John Son Single M 16 1865 Sadler
Overton Flintshire Wales
WALKER, Jane Daughter Single F 14 1867 Assist In Washing
Overton Flintshire Wales
WALKER, Cate Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Overton
Flintshire Wales
APPLEYARD, Richard Lodger Single M 22 1859 Joiner
Chester T. Perran
JONES, Harold F Lodger Single M 20 1861 Joiner Wrexham ? Buildings

the Ancestry service records posted relate to this Harold T Jones -

1911

JONES, John Head Married M 49 1862 General Labourer Shotton Flintshire VIEW
JONES, Eliza Jane Wife Married
19 years F 43 1868 Penzance Cornwall VIEW
JONES, Annie Ellen Daughter Single F 19 1892 Falmouth Cornwall VIEW
JONES, William John Son Single M 17 1894 Sheet Mill Worker Falmouth Cornwall VIEW
JONES, Geore Gordon Son Single M 16 1895 Sheet Mill Worker Falmouth Cornwall VIEW
JONES, Harold Thomas Son M 13 1898 School Falmouth Cornwall VIEW
HEWITT, Joseph Boarder Single M 20 1891 Sheet Mill Worker Brickley Flintshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
33967 Reference:
RG14PN33967 RG78PN1962 RD620 SD1 ED4 SN38

Registration District:
Hawarden Sub District:
Hawarden Enumeration District:
4 Parish:
Hawarden

Address:
2 Wellington St Shotton County:
Flintshire




this is the other one -

1911

JONES, Mary Jane Head Widow F 61 1850 Charwoman Overton Flints VIEW
JONES, Harrold Tudor Foster Son M 10 1901 Wrexham Denbs VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16164 Reference:
RG14PN16164 RG78PN999 RD351 SD1 ED1 SN99

Registration District:
Ellesmere Sub District:
Overton Enumeration District:
1 Parish:
Overton

Address:
Turning Row Overton Ellesmere County:
Shropshire


Mary Jane states (crossed out) married 16 years and 1 child born and still living

British Army Service Records 1760-1913 Transcription

First name(s): Harold Tudor

Last name: JONES

Calculated year of birth: 1861

Parish of birth: Wrexham

Town of birth: Wrexham

County of birth: North Wales

Age at attestation: 23 years 10 months

Attestation date: 20 June 1884

Attestation corps: Royal Artillery

Attestation soldier number: 43170

Discharge rank:

Discharge corps:

Discharge soldier number:

The National Archives reference: WO97 / 3174 / 90

I thought that was not right too Choccy.
That was extracted from his tree.

thanks choccy that confirms soldier occupation on the marriage

fmp version of 1871

1871 census - household transcription
Person: JONES, Harold T
Address: Gredington Arms, Gourton
BELLIS, Mary Head F 70 1801 Denbighshire
BELLIS, Edward Son M 36 1835 Denbighshire
BOOTH, Margaret Daughter F 30 1841 Denbighshire
BELLIS, Anne Granddaughter F 17 1854 Denbighshire
JONES, Harold T Grandson M 11 1860 Denbighshire
BOOTH, William Grandson M 6 1865 London
KENNEDY, John Servant M 21 1850 Ireland

I have been 'slogging' at this all day LK but am going around in circles !!

I will keep at it !

Dea Xxx

Do you know for a fact that that is him on 1911 with Mary Jane ?

Dea x

1861 Address: 20, Chester Street, Wrexham Regis, Wrexham
JONES, Robert Head Married M 33 1828 Coach Body Maker Master
Wrexham Denbighshire
JONES, Elizabeth Wife Married F 36 1825 Denbighshire
JONES, Llewellyn Son M 3 1858 Wrexham Denbighshire
JONES, Harnold J Son M 0 (8M) 1861 Wrexham Denbighshire

Mary Jane was unable to read and write so the form was filled in for her. Is it possible theat Harold is her actual son and not Foster son?

It certainly looks that way LK, unless he was married before and this was his son by his first wife??

Dea x

I also think that 1911 census says that she had 'nil' children ???

There is a '1' at the side but I don't understand what it means??

Dea x

There are some certificates on the ancestry tree.
They were both single at time of marriage and she was 40 so possible they did nnot have children.
marriage cert says Robert is Htj seniors father and 1861 gives a sibling.

re HTL JUNIOR
SO IF THAT WAS THE INCORRECT RECORD ABOVE THEIR MUST BE A CORRECT ONE

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/old_photos/pages/wwii.shtml?12

Michael Jones,from London.
Photo No:12 preparing for war, and photo, No 13; Mr Harrold Tudor Jones on the left of that photo the youngest of the two with either is Dad, or my uncle, aged 16; joined The army very young to be with his family. Photo No 12@13 was taken 1916 just before the 38th (Welch) Div, the 1st Royal Welch Fusiliers, went to Russia, Mametz Woods late: 1916. The Army was sometimes called Loyd George's Welsh Army recruitments. The regiment had a very famous person attached to the Div. a (Lt Siegfried Sasson) Poet and a officer of the best quality, sometimes called (Mad Jack) the reasons will speak for itself if you read up on him. Dad won the M.M. with a white ribbon attached Campaigns in Russia, then on to the Somme. He also was in a special unit which he told me about when he came over the ridge to the Somme. Perhaps the unit he was in was not too known. But anyone that has any knowledge of the unit. They used Flashing, Angels, over the Somme to frighten the Belgains a very frightening factor just before the Battle began on that fatal morning of the battle. If there is any more information that I can give to you about my Dad and Uncle, please write.
Tue Jul 25 07:59:09 2006

M. J. Jones
Re photo No 12. Second from the left in the top rank is my father the rest in that top rank are related to one another. My father, a Harold Tudor Jones, was 16 when he joined the army to be with his family in the 1914/1918 war, joining in 1916 then going to Mametz Wood in Russia where it is said by him that he won the Military Medal by notifying a block house H.Q. that there was going to be a Barrage attack on the wood at Mametz so that they all could leave the post. Dad was a runner at the time.
Thu Jul 13 17:20:31 2006

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:iIJw96chqIAJ:www.ellesmere.info/news/merenews/Issue34.pdf+%22harold+tudor+jones%22+WREXHAM&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShluz699ue-_eXSwOGjSHo1u0axNrZ614mlCX-B5GLTweLwnCIr_Zzeq6ehE74Rzd2gdeMqe6hrIvMdtrE98oU3WghBcYSpAyoUry6nr_eJaJp7drqQoR4SGr8HAFMjtf2jAKh0&sig=AHIEtbTtkj8rzjj-paHJ_l_w2UyjZmOUFQ
just looking at this mary jane had a sister married to james jones. they had a son Daniel Bartlam Jones of the same age as harold junior

I can see no sign of emily james or Daniel in 1911
please read link as cannot copy onto here

1851 Address: Greddington Arms
BELLIS, Edward Married M 66 1785 Victualler
Llanypull
Denbighshire
BELLIS, Mary Wife Married F 50 1801 Innkeepers Wife
Llanypull
Denbighshire
BELLIS, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 18 1833 Assistant
Llanypull Denbighshire
BELLIS, Edward Son Unmarried M 16 1835 Labourer
Llanypull Denbighshire
BELLIS, Margaret Daughter F 12 1839 Scholar
Llanypull Denbighshire
GRONOW, Charles Servant Unmarried M 30 1821 Labourer Abenbury Denbighshire

1861 Address: Llanypwll, Goveton
BELLIS, Mary Head Widow F 60 1801 Inn Keeper
GourtonDenbighshire
BELLIS, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 29 1832
Gourton Denbighshire
BELLIS, Edward Son Unmarried M 26 1835
Gourton Denbighshire
BELLIS, Margaret Daughter Unmarried F 21 1840
Gourton Denbighshire
..., Ann Granddaughter F 6 1855
Gourton Denbighshire

Thanks for help so far MC Choccy Chrisho And Dea.