Find Ancestors

I have found my husbands grandmother on the irish 1901 and 1911 census. In 1911, she is down as Jeanie (which is her family name) and in 1901 she is down as Jennie.

Jeanie is proving difficult to find. She had her son illegitamately and later married, we think to someone called Mason.

I can't find the marriage, but more importantly, where do I find her birth record. She would have been born c1889 Possibly Portaferry, County Down, Ireland. Jeanie Torney.

Any advice please?
Dee

BMD Ireland
The Complete Records for Births, Deaths and Marriages. - Free Trial

findmypast.co.uk/BMD

According to the 1901 census she 2, this could be her birth

Name: Jane M'Cappin Torney
Registration District: Downpatrick
Event Type: BIRTHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1899
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101067
Volume Number: 1
Page Number: 546
Digital Folder Number: 4193981
Image Number: 00395
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

The GRO(I) index thru 1958 (excl N. Ireland post-partition) is available at:
https://www.familysearch.org/s/collection/list#page=1®ion=EUROPE

One can purchase certs (or cheaper still, the uncertified images of the rego) via:
http://www.groireland.ie/

Possible this may be family of Thomas Torney (Jeannie's father)...1901

Residents of a house 65 in Church Street (Ards Upper, Down)

Torney Jane 25 Female Daughter Presbyterian Co Down Seamstress Read and write - Not Married -
Torney Thomas 78 Male Head of Family Presbyterian Co Down Shoemaker "Master" Read and write - Married -
Torney Maria 74 Female Wife Presbyterian,
Thomas snr and Jane living 6 Church St.1911 (DED now Portaferry)

Maura and Eringobragh1916

I am confused, I think this is a different family.

I have the following for the 1911 census
at Meeting House Lane, Portaferry, Down Religion Presbyterian
Head of family Mary age 46 widow (married 23years, children born 5, 4 living)
William Torney son age 20 single - tailor
Marjorie Torney dgtr age 18 single - embroidery factory
Hessie Torney dgtr age 14 - embroidery factory
Jeanie Torney dgtr age 12 - scholar.

in 1901
at Meeting House Lane,Ards Upper, Down
Thomas Torney 48 Head - shoemaker
Mary Torney 30 wife
William Torney 11 son
Marjorie Torney 9 dgtr
Hessie Torney 4 dgtr
Jennie Torney 2 dgtr

Now, I know this is the family as I have met aunt Hessie

Jeanie/Jennie or Ginny as we knew her had a son Thomas Torney in 1920 (my father in law). We have no idea how old she was at the time, but she wasn't married.

Erin
Surely a 25 year old would be a grand-daughter to a 78 year old? Could this be another generation of the family do you think?
I am thinking that perhaps Thomas Torney and Maria had a son Thomas Torney - my family at meeting house Lane, Thomas being 48 and his wife Mary age 30?

I will need to get some certificated first to be certain.

I think I will take a look at the websites which mgnv has given me first. (THANK YOU MGNV)

Flick
Thank you for the reference to BMD Ireland, I didn't know there was a separate one. when I have done my housework, I will try it out.

Maura
I have no idea what the M'cappin is. Never heard it mentioned in the family - birth year would be right.

I know Ginny (jeanie/Jennie) married later, we think to a John? Mason, as he was the reason my father in law left home - he didn't get on with his stepfather! I haven't found the marriage record yet, so maybe it is because I have been looking for ginny and not Jane??? Will have to look again.

Thanks everyone. I have very little to go on as my father-in-law did not talk about his family much. But he made sure he visited his Aunt Hessie each time he went back to Portaferry!

Dee if she didn't marry until after 1921 you won't get it online as BMD's stop at 1921 for Northern Ireland. The McCappin comes into the family through a Maria McCappin marry a Thomas Torney 1st June 1845 in Ballyphillip C.O.I Co Down, they could be Jeanie's grandparents. The only marriage I can find for possible parents of Jeanie is, Thomas Torney married Mary Ann Patterson 7th April 1890 in Ballyculter C.O.I. Co Down

Maura
I am having some difficulties in finding the info I want.
Your marriage of Mary Ann Patterson and thomas fits in with the 1901 census, though William would have been born the same year (he is age 11 in 1901). It would be lovely if this is our family (I married my husband on 7th April in 1984!) what a coincidence that would be.

Presumably, I would get a copy of this marriage from the records offices in Roscommon? but before I do that, I need to link the families. I only have a short copy of my father-in-laws birth certificate. I would like to get a full copy, would I have to contact Roscommon offices for that too?

Your help is much appreciated

What is the COI ?

COI mean Church of Ireland, and yes you can get the cert from Roscommon

Name: Thomas Torney
Registration District: Downpatrick
Event Type: BIRTHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1920
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101078
Volume Number: 1
Page Number: 636
Digital Folder Number: 4194697
Image Number: 00431
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958


Name: Thomas Torney
Registration District: Downpatrick
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1890
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101256
Volume Number: 1
Page Number: 587
Digital Folder Number: 4179388
Image Number: 00228
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

Name: Mary Anne Patterson
Registration District: Downpatrick
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1890
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101256
Volume Number: 1
Page Number: 587
Digital Folder Number: 4179388
Image Number: 00224
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

Dee...Just to clarify the Thomas Torney (snr) entry...1901...
He may have been the father to Thomas Torney (jnr) father of Hessie...
Although it may seem today that 78 was old to be father to Jane aged 25...not so then....(women were having children into their late 40s)
However for ref here is 1911..note he is still 78 and Jane is 42...!!

Residents of a house 5 in Church Street (Portaferry, Down)

Torney Thomas 78 Male Head of Family Presbyterian Co Down Shoemaker Read and write - Widower - - - -
Torney Jane 42 Female Daughter Presbyterian









--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:

Thank you Maura
this info will be very useful when ordering certificates

Erin
Yes, I was thinking along those lines and we know of friends to the family in Church Street. I have been lucky enough to have visited Portaferry a few years back with my f-i-l it isn't very big and these pieces of info I would think, are on the ball.

I will be ordering Tommy's full birth cert on Monday hopefully. Don't really want to order the others until I am certain of his mother's full name.

Thomas Torney age 78 in 1911 is a shoemaker and the fact that Thomas Torney age 48 in 1901 was a shoemaker also, would lead me to believe they were father and son.

Would you be able to find any references of when and where these people died and were buried.

When I visited Portaferry, we went looking for Tommy's mother's grave. We knew which graveyard she was in, but couldn't find it. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the name of the graveyard. It was on the side of a road into Portaferry, with Iron fencing and gates (I know, lots of graveyards have these), but we had to collect a key from a house nearby to get into the graveyard.

It would be nice to find out where they were buried, should I prove the relationship. I know my husband would love to take another trip to Portaferry, he went there many times as a child.

I'm getting confused - again. Just to clarify

1901: Thomas Torney 78 shoemaker "master" & Maria Torney 74 with Jane 25 at 65 Church St Portaferry.

1901: Thoms Torney 48 shoemaker & Mary Torney 30 with Hessie and Jennie at meeting house lane, ards upper, down.

Thomas & Mary Anne Patterson married 7/4/1890 Ballycutler, Co Down

Thomas & Maria McCappin married 1/6/1845 Ballyphillip Co Down

Jane M'Cappin Torney born Jan-Mar 1899 Reg Dist DownPatrick

Now Thomas Maria would have been married 44 years! when Jane was born??? so is Jeanie/Jennie Jane?

Or was Jane born to Thomas and Mary Anne with her middle name given as her grandmother's maiden name? and she is Jeanie/Jennie? I don't think so, she was age 2 in 1901! Jane would be the sister of Thomas jnr.

Question 1: Why would Jane be 25 in 1901 daughter of Maria and Thomas and the birth record of a Jane M'cappin torney be in 1899?

Question 2: Erin, on the 1911 census, is Jane 42 married?

If she is my f-i-law's mother, she would have been 51 when she had him. My husband does not remember her being that old although she did die when he was a young boy. (1960's).

Dee...Maura is much more familiar with the North than I am but I have found both Mary and Margorie September 28 1912 still at Meeting House Lane....
They both signed the Ulster Covenant...

Torney Marjorie. Meeting House Lane. Down: North Portaferry Court House
Torney Mary A .Meeting House Lane Down: North Portaferry Court House.
I do think that the info. obtained so far indicates you have the correct family and that Thomas Torney and Marie McCappin were the parents of Thomas Torney.

Have found 2 children so far of that marriage..Wm John b 3 Dec 1865
Mary Jane 12 Aug 1868......(this would correspond with the age stated by "Jane" 1911)

Dee...Thread has crossed...will answer your queries in a minute..

Dee...Thomas Torney married Marie McCappin...they had a child named "Mary" Jane...(1868)...she is the Jane on the 1901 census aged 25yrs. (likely incorrect age)..she is listed as aged 42 yrs on 1911 living with her father in Church St.
That Jane would be the sister of Thomas Torney (Meeting House lane)
Jane McCrappin Torney was the daughter of Thomas and Ma.Ann (Meeting House Lane) and ...yes ..given her paternal grandmothers maiden name...
Jane Torney (Church St.) was single 1901 /1911

thank you Erin

That helps me build the picture of the tree.
Strange that my husband's grandmother went from being born Jane to been recorded as Jennie in 1901 and Jeanie in 1911 and we knew her as Ginny - irish accent, I expect. Lol.

So, now I would like to find Jane(Ginny's) marriage to John Mason. If she was 51 when Tommy was born in 1920, I think he left home at 14/15 (therefore 1934ish) as he didn't get on with his stepfather. So they would have been married just before that time, I would think.

Got it wrong, haven't I?
Jane would have been 21 in 1920. (I was thinking Mary Jane)

Dee, to see their signatures in the Ulster Covenant. -

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/ulster_covenant.htm

Joy
Thank you, i have been away looking at it.
What is interesting, is that on the sheet Mary signed, there are the names Barbara McCappin - relation to Maria???
Also the names Mrs Ennis and Mary Dennison. of Hight St. Tommy lived in High street and Mrs Ennis and Mary Dennison were friends of the family. So this is another confirmation that we are on the right track for the family!