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just noticed another name Ellison....I seem to recollect that name. Husband in bed, so can't check right now

You're welcome. Another confirmation is always good :-)

yes it is. And this site is very interesting. I will show it my husband tomorrow.

Are there any online sites which may have baptisms or buriels for Portaferry do you know?

If you put
portaferry baptisms and burials
in google, some interesting sites appear.

Happy hunting :-)

thank you Joy, I will take a look tomorrow

Dee....Have been looking at the Trade Directories (PRONI site) and both Thomas snr and Thomas jnr.are listed..Shoemakers. Portaferry....1895 also has Thomas jnr.as Sexton Pres.Church.
There is also Joseph Torney greengrocer/auctioneer but cant locate him on 1901 Census.
The following may be of interest...note the daughter's name. Given the age of Thomas it may be a ? brother of Marie McCappin..
Market Square Portaferry


McCappin Thomas 80 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Down Retired Flesher Read and write - Married - 50 12 7
McCappin Margaret 76 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Down - Read and write - Married - 50 12 7
**McCappin Hessie 32 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Down - Read and write - Single -***
McCappin James 40 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Down Flesher Read and write - Married - 6 - -
McCappin Nessie 26 Female Daughter in Law Church of Ireland

Dee..The Barbara Mc Cappin (Ulster covenant) was the daughter of the above Thomas McCappin and Margaret Clydesdale....
1901 Census shows her at the address stated on the UC and 1911 shows her living alone..no occup.(Note Mistranscrption of surname)

Residents of a house 3 in Avonbeg Street (Clifton, Antrim) 1901

McCappin Charles 24 Male Brother Episcopalian Portaferry, Co Down - Read and write - Not Married -
McCappin Thomas 28 Male Head of Family Episcopalian Portaferry, Co Down Flesher Read and write - Not Married -
Luen Arthur 23 Male Nephew Episcopalian Portaferry, Co Down Engineer Marine Read and write - Not Married -
McCappin Barbara 22 Female Sister Episcopalian Portaferry, Co Down Housekeeper Read and write - Not Married -
McCappin Hessie 20 Female Visitor Episcopalian ...Portaferry Down...Not married

Residents of a house 3 in Avonbeg (Clifton, Antrim)

Mc Cappie Barbara 35 Female Head of Family Church of Ireland...Not married

This family keeps changing their religion....!!!

nudge

Erin
I have been going over the information/memories with my husband and there seems to be a big "secret" within the family, but doesn't know what it is.

This is what I have.
My f-i-l was Thomas Torney born in 1920.
His mother was known as Ginny - granny mason to my husband.
We only have a small birth cert for Tommy but we also have a death cert for a John Mason 25/6/1965 Winson Green, Birmingham (his sister M Smith as informant) he was a joiner of 15 Harleyford Road, London SE 11.
Ginny's grave we think is marked surname Mason, but the first name is unreadable, but when viisited, Tommy was with us and he referred to her as ginny.

We know Tommy had an Aunt Hessie as my husband met her (she was married by then) this would have been around 1972-1975. They visited her in Belfast, which is where she lived with her husband, whos name he cannot remember at the moment.

2 years before Tommy died, he mentioned a step-father - John Mason who he did not get on with, but that is all he would tell us. Tommy left home because of him around 1934-1936 and because Portaferry was mainly catholic religion and his family were presbyterian.
Until this time, my husband thought his father Tommy had been given his father's surname, but it seems that if Ginny married, she was a Torney. However, I cannot find her marriage to John Mason. Don't know when or where it would have been. presumably as Tommy was born 1920, it was between 1920 and 1934 when he left home.

I can't find Ginny's death/buriel, but I do know that there was a bit of a battle to get her buried in the graveyard she is in - something to do with religion, I would think.

When I found a Jeannie Torney with a sister Hessie Torney in Portaferry, 1911. I have assumed this to be ginny. Particularly as in 1901 her father was listed as Thomas Torney - coincidence to name her son the same? I would have thought not.

Then Thomas and Mary Anne Patterson's marriage was found. Thomas' father and mother Maria McCappin found also, and then a birth of Jane McCappin Torney in 1899 which matched Jeanie and Jennie on the 1901 and 1911 census.

My husband has never heard of the name McCappin.

I will be telephone my husband's sister who is 2 years older than him, to see if she may remember more from when she was a young girl, maybe she can throw some light on the situation.

What my husband can remember, is that when he visited Portaferry with his father about 1977, his dad Tommy mentioned that there was a house next door to where he was brought up which was a cobblers and Tommy as a teenager used to go and help out - another coincidence???

both Thomas Torney jnr and Thomas Torney snr were shoemakers. Tommy saw them cutting the pieces of leather.

Not sure where to go from here.
1st - order Tommy's birth cert in the hope it will confirm his mothers full name.
2nd - find her buriel, not sure how would have been about 1974 but as what name?

then what?

just googled place of death for John Mason (1 western Road, Winson Green). It was City Hospital by the looks, so presumably he was staying with his sister (M Smith of 6 South Road, Birmingham 19). the certs said he was of 15 Harleyford Road, London SE 11 - a joiner. I wonder how he and my husband's grandmother would have met???

I have ordered my f-i-law's full birth certificate today. Lets see what name is given for his mother.

Will keep you informed later. Thanks

Well, the certificate has arrived this morning and I would like to thank everyone who has helped me on this thread. You were spot on!

Tommy's mother was Jane Torney (seamstress) and, as expected - no father named.

One thing which is puzzling me. His birth is registered by a Sarah McBride who was present at birth, from High Street, Portaferry. I don't know who she is, but would love to find out.

Tommy's birth address is also High Street, Portaferry - this must have been Jane's home for sometime as we knew Tommy had lived there. It is the next street to Church Street mentioned on the census' both streets, as far as I remember go to the square and I think meeting house lane is off the other side of the square - I may be wrong, I have only visited Portaferry once.

Maura
Thank you for finding Jane's marriage certificate, I need to find her death or buriel record now. Not sure where to start, as I do not know when it was, but my husband thinks he was about 14 or 15 which would have been about 1976/1977, and I wish I knew the name of the graveyard she was buried in. I can picture it in my head - just don't know its name. If I knew what road it was on, perhaps I could google street map it???

My husband always thought that his granny Mason was unmarried and that Tommy had been given HIS father's surname - Torney. We only discovered she had been married 2 years before Tommy died, when he "just happened to slip it into a conversation".

This tree has been difficult to do with very little information on the family to start with, particularly as we thought Tommy's mother was Ginny Mason! Well done to everyone in discovering her name was actually Jane Torney.

I now have a 5 generation Torney tree starting with my daughters, through my husband, Jane Torney, Thomas Torney and Thomas Torney again. It is nice to think that Jane named her only child after her father and grandfather! What a shame I didn't have a son, we were going to give him the middle name of Thomas, but alas, the Torney surname ends with my husband (presuming that my daughters will eventially marry!).

Off to put all my new information into my family tree maker now.

Thank you all.
Dee

Update
Jane died in Wolverhampton whilst staying with her son Tommie in 1967. It seems she died of breast cancer so whether Tommie and Kay were nursing her at the time, I don't know. My husband would have been 5 (not 15 as first presumed) which will be why he can't remember much about it. However, his sister was 2 years older and remembers that there was a lot of effort in getting Ginny (Jane) buried back in her home town of Portaferry. I still have not found out where or when the burial took place. Don't know where to start really. John Mason died in 1965 and was stopping at his sisters house in Winson Green, Birmingham although his death cert states he was living in London. I am not sure where Jane was in 1965, if she was living in UK or Ireland at that time. Perhaps this is why there was trouble getting her buried in Portaferry???

I have been trying to concentrate on Jane McCappin Torney's family Thomas and Maria to find out more, but unfortunately, without access to records it is proving difficult. I have the family in 1901 and 1911 (though Maria must have died between 1901 and 1911 as she is not with Thomas and Jane (Mary Jane) in 1911.

There are a few Torney families in the Portaferry area around that time, and I feel sure they would be connected, though the religions vary. Without access to parish records I am stuck.

If there are anyone out there who have access to the parish records of Protaferry and Down, and could help, it would be very much appreciated.

I have discovered from the census' in 1901 & 1911 census that Jane had sisters Marjorie and Hessie and a brother William. I would love to find William's birth record. in one census he was born 1890 and in another 1891. There are a few possible records for a birth available on the internet, but I am not sure which one is correct. I know he married a Violet Graham 2/7/1920 as I have matched with their grandson on Ancestry, but he doesn't have any details of William's parentage etc other than than which I have.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Regards
Dee

Welcome back Dee...

Do you have Janes Death Cert for 1967..?
It should state if she died at "home" or in Hospital...if it was "Home" then check out the obits in the local paper for the time in question...her death/funeral arrangements may possibly be listed
Find out who was the local undertaker but also check out which undertaker could facilitate repatriation to Ireland..not necessarily the same one...
The practice of going home to be buried was much more common then than now but the system remains the same...
I am not sure how long undertakers especially if they are a "Family" business keep their records or where they get deposited (if anywhere) after a certain period of time....
Hope the above has been of some help....

Erin.
Thank you for the suggestions, I hadn't thought about going down that avenue. I think there were only 2 undertakers in Wolverhampton at the time. She died in Hospital. Your advice at least gives me something to work on. Even if the undertakers (when I identify them) don't have the records any longer, they may be deposited at the local records offices to which I pay a visit every now and then when I have the time.

Thank you again.
Dee

Morning Dee...

You may be able to get some info.from Hospital (Mortuary Records)....they would have name etc of the undertaker who collected Jane for Burial....
Famlies also tended to use the same undertaker so look at who buried any others in the family/extended family.