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Hi Emma I have finished with that part of the famiy but thankyou for asking :)

Are you still looking for help with the 1911 census? PM all the details and I will take a look.

Okay ... well I guess I've done enough "finding" of things you already knew but just didn't get around to telling us!

Thankyou MarieCeleste we'll probably never know why they didn't marry until later...

I don't think spelling was Thomas' strong point! It's no good me asking FMP to amend as it is the way he filled in census.

Wonder if either had been married before, which is why they weren't able to marry until much later?

Certainly not unusual for a couple then to say they were married when they weren't.

Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou MarieCeleste I think Allerton Street was where Florence was born. I cannot thankyou enough!! Its a bit weird that they say they are married because they weren't until 1913...

1911?

MATHEWS, Thomas Head Married M 29 1882 Carman Hoxton London
MATHEWS, Allen Wife Married 9 years F 26 1885 Tailoress Mens Hoxton London
MATHEWS, Thomas Son M 8 1903
MATHEWS, Florie Daughter F 6 1905

Registration District: Shoreditch Sub District: Shoreditch South Enumeration District: 21 Parish: Shoreditch

Original says 4 children born, 2 survived. They may have just assumed a marriage date one year before oldest child born for the sake of propriety.

Address: 9 Allerton Street Hoxton N County: London

Ellen died 1939 (sorry should have mentioned that aswell). She didn't meet Florence's children

Yep that is the 1881. I know about the Tomalin Family but not the Matthews. I think its probably because its a fairly common name.

Births Jun 1882
TOMALIN Ellen Eliza Shoreditch 1c 49

possible death (not unusual for birthday to be right but year to be wrong, for someone who died at such an old age)

Name: Ellen Eliza Matthews
Birth Date: 18 Apr 1884
Death Registration Month/Year: 1978
Registration district: Reading & Wokingham
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 19
Page: 0299

Sorry don't have the marriage but know it was in 1929 in Shoreditch. she would have been 23/24. and her father's occupation on birth in Carman (could be Gasman :/)

1881 just posting this while I have a look around

Name: James Tomalin
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Tomalin
Gender: Male
Where born: Canterbury, Kent, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 59 Huntingdon St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: French Polisher

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: St Leonard
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Tomalin 26
Eliza Tomalin 28
James A. Tomalin 3
Charles A. Tomalin 1

Occupation on marriage cert for Ellens father is polisher

Sorry I should have mentioned them earlier :/

Is there any 1911 matches for Florence or Florence Maud Matthews born 1905 in Shoreditch or somewhere near Shoreditch ??
Many Thanks

Oh, and as far as his name Thomas Matthews on your nan's birth certificate -- not at all uncommon for people to go by their middle name, and if she was registered by her mother, she might well have just given the name he was known by.

Do you have your nan's marriage certificate? Does she state her father's name and occupation on it? And her age?

That's what I was asking -- whether you knew about Joseph and George.

It doesn't help at all for you to know things if you don't tell us what they are!

Since you know about Joseph and George -- i.e. you have family knowledge of them, they're known to be family members? -- this seems to confirm that the Matthews-Tomalin couple is the right one.

I suspect that Rebecca was a later partner of your nan's father, and they possibly didn't marry. That was not at all unusual in the days before divorce was accessible.

As far as having children before a marriage, that wasn't unusual either. ;)

Now, the couple in the 1911 doesn't match your William Thomas for date of birth, per his death record. DOB on death record isn't always correct, but that's a bit of a large discrepancy.

If that Henry died as a child then yes he would be their child as only Florence, Joseph and Thomas survived to the knowledge of the family.

thanks I know about Joseph and George (George died same year). And yes that is the death of Rebecca.

I'm quite sure I have the right birth certificate, my father said that the dob matched.
Her full name is Florence Maud Matthews, born 1905 in Shoreditch.

Births to the Matthews-Tomalin couple after 1911:

Births Mar 1920
Matthews Joseph Tomalin Shoreditch 1c 61
Births Dec 1921
Matthews George Tomalin Shoreditch 1c 33

Are these familiar?

I might also suspect this one:

Births Dec 1912
Matthews Henry Tomlin Shoreditch 1c 37

(Other Matthews-Tomlin births are accounted for by other marriages.)