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I dunno, that's a big coincidence, lamp maker.

Marriages Jun 1886
Bray Thomas Holborn 1b 968
Fowls Lena Hetty Holborn 1b 968

I'd meant to investigate Bray, when I noticed a bunch of Blays had been born in Bray, Berkshire. ;)

Family is the same in 1871 though (I'd wondered about older daughters), in Hackney:

Thomasb Bray 40 - tin plate maker
Mary Bray 38
Thomas Bray 10
Fred Bray 8

Unfortunately - I don't think the above is them!!!

There is a Mary Bray with son Frederick next door to them on 1901 so I
would think this is the same family on 1881 - no 'John' and still called 'Bray'
.................. drattt !!!!!!!!

BRAY, Thomas Head Married M 50 1831 Tin Plate Worker London Islington, London Middlesex
BRAY, Mary Wife Married F 48 1833 London Islington, London Middlesex
BRAY, Thomas Son Single M 20 1861 Brazier London St Lukes, London Middlesex
BRAY, Frederick Son Single M 17 1864 Costume Maker London St Lukes, London Middlesex

RG11 Piece:250 Folio:58 Page:18

Registration District:
Islington Sub District:
Islington East Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Islington Municipal Borough:
Address:
48, Ecclesbourne Rd, Islington County:
Middlesex

Dea x

What about this Thomas in 1901?

BRAY, Thos Head Married M 40 1861 ***Lamp Maker**** London
BRAY, Lena H Wife Married F 32 1869 London
BRAY, Maud M Daughter Single F 9 1892 London
BRAY, Mabel W Daughter Single F 4 1897 London

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
345 Folio:
77 Page:
34

Registration District:
Poplar Sub District:
Bromley Enumeration District:
9 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Michael's

Civil Parish:
Bromley Municipal Borough:
Address:
15, Ailsa Street, Bromley, London County:
London

I will see if I can trace him back with a John................

Dea x

If it were me I would be buying the 1885 marriage cert of Thomas Blay to see if he was a Lamp Maker ....and to check which bride was his of course.

Hi Janey
Yes he's the 1960 death,
I've been a bit thrown by the thought he could have been born with a different surname - I thought it was bad enough he could be using his middle name!!
I have been eliminating Blay boys born between 1875 - 79 (so far 20 down & 24 to go) but a different surname just fills me with dread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But thinking about it, it does explain him just turning up in 1901 - but I do so hope that theory is wrong!
Once again,thank you all so much for taking the time to look & reply - it is really appreciated.
Sharon

sharonlondon, do you have your John's death?


This is the best match I see for the John H:

Name: John H Blay
Death Registration Month/Year: 1930
Age at death (estimated): 52 = c1878
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 158

Possibly yours --

Name: John Blay
Death Registration Month/Year: 1960
Age at death (estimated): 81 = c1879
Registration district: Shoreditch
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 540

?

But he is accounted for in 1901.

Name: John Blay
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen Blay
Gender: Male
Where born: Coogdon, Surrey, England
[Croydon]

Civil parish: Battersea

John Blay 24
Ellen Blay 27
Ellen Blay 10 Months


Somebody's made that correction at Ancestry, so one could always enquire!

The John from croydon had a father called Thomas and mother Ann

jax

Or, Mike:

Births Mar 1876
Bartlett John William Holborn 1b 799

Clerkenwell = Holborn reg dist

That's certainly my first theory in such cases, Mike -- parents not married at time of birth ... if ever. ;)

It means that the person could be hiding in early censuses under a stepfather's name, for instance. The father's name on the marriage certificate could be, or be any combination (given name / surname) of, the maternal grandfather, the real father, a stepfather, or a figment of the imagination. ;)

"Lamp maker" is a pretty specific job description though, so it suggests that someone was real somewhere along the way.

Leap in the dark but putting it here in case needed later....



John Bartlett --------------------------------------
Birth:
Christening: 18 NOV 1877 Southwark, Surrey, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: James Bartlett

Mother: Ann

Sorry about that - the Marriage was from memory (can't access records saved on Ancestry as haven't renewed!!) but at the end of the day it still makes his birth 1877!!

-Just wondering if parents not married when he was born

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1885 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BARTLETT Annie St. Saviour 1d 142
Blay Thomas - St. Saviour 1d 142
Doust Eliza St.Saviour 1d 142
Puxty Henry St. Saviour 1d 142

Marriage cert says age 26

jax

Might he have been William John Blay?


1891

Name: William J Blay
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas H Blay
Mother's Name: Emma J Blay
Where born: Chelsea, London, England

Civil parish: Chelsea
County/Island: London

Thomas H Blay 38
Emma J Blay 38
William J Blay 12


Thomas's occupation was Grave Digger.

I can see someone fudging that when he married. ;)


Nope, that one was:

Births Dec 1878
Blay William James Chelsea 1a 349


Ruled out! Probably ...

Janey - i only have what he's given on the 1901 & 1911 Census.
His marriage cert is just "Full Age
Sorry!

Name: John Blay
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Spouse Name: Susanna Bye
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 02 Aug 1903
Parish: St Pancras Old Church
County: London
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Thomas Blay
Spouse Father Name: George Bye

For reference - 1911 census -

BYE, George Head Widower M 69 1842 Cale Driver St Pamcras
BYE, Frederick Son Single M 24 1887 Porter Clerkenwell
BYE, Thomas Gr Son M 10 1901 Clerkenwell
BLEY, John Head Married M 32 1879 Picture Frame Maker Clerkenwell
BLAY, Susannah Wife Married
7 years F 33 1878 Clerkenwell
BLAY, Doris Daughter F 4 1907 Clerkenwell
BLAY, John Son M 2 1909 Clerkenwell
BLAY, Kathleen Daughter F 0 (3 WEEKS) 1911 Clerkenwell
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1232 Reference:
RG14PN1232 RG78PN42 RD14 SD2 ED17 SN521

Registration District:
Holborn Sub District:
Clerkenwell Enumeration District:
17 Parish:
St James and St John Clerkenwell

Address:
12 Noble ST County:
London

Thanks for some of the replies!!
Ann please don't waste you time on the Byes as I have lots of info on them.
Another option is that he is using his Middle name as an adult & not the name on his birth record.
So I know it is going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack!!
But thanks folks for looking & taking the time to reply.
Sharon

If it weren't for the age difference I'd like this one. I still might. ;)


1881

Name: John Blay
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Where born: Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Marylebone
County/Island: London
Street Address: 22 Stafford Street
Registration district: Marylebone

Emma Wilder 60
John Blay 8


1891

Name: John Blay
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Nephew
Where born: St Mary Le Bow, London, England

Civil parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London

Michael Gordon 40
Elna Gordon 39
John Blay 18


Do you have any other confirmation of his age -- marriage certficate?

... but in 1891 that one is a printer's compositor, so not likely ...