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I'll wait for the two birth certs to arrive and see what info is on them. Then I shall send for the marriage cert. I hope I can eventually get a clue about who Phillip is too. Thanks

Regards
Linda

I wondered about the mother dying scenario too, and the Benjamin + Emma couple. There is a possible Benjamin Glover + Emma Greaves marriage 1856 Melton Mowbray:

Marriages Mar 1856
Glover Benjamin Melton M. 7a 301
Greaves Emma Melton Mowbray 7a 301
Pailthorpe William Melton M. 7a 301
Warrington Kezia Melton Mowbray 7a 301
Warrington Keziah Melton Mowbray 7a 301

The one 1848 in Bradford seems less likely.

There are so many Eliza Glover deaths ... 1 Eliza and 3 Elizabeths in Basford alone ... 1844-1850, 2 in Middlesex plus 3 Elizabeths, but none in Poplar.

Are you going to go for the probable marriage? That would give you Benjamin Sr's father's name!

Marriages Jun 1842
Glover Benjamin Poplar 2 285

Thanks for that info everyone. I am going to send for the birth certs. for Benjamin Joseph John born Poplar in 1844. I should have mentioned that I know his father's name is Benjamin because I have the marriage cert of Benjamin and Sarah Randles in Chester and it states his father's name as Benjamin Glover (Engine Fitter).

I have looked at the 1861 census again and can see a Benjamin Glover (Engineer) married to Emma (a much younger woman than himself) but there is a daughter Eliza (born London) who's age of 19 fits in with the age of the Eliza 'Visitor' on the 1851 census. The only problem is that this Benjamin gives his birthplace as Derbyshire?? It would also mean that Benjamin (Jnr) wasn't 'orphaned' - perhaps his mother died?

I'm also going to send for the birth cert of Eliza Jane born Poplar 1843.

Maybe I'm getting somewhere now it's just the places of birth for these people that still makes me feel I'll never be totally convinced. Thanks to everyone who contributed their suggestions/help with this. I did send a message to a GR member with a Phillip in his tree but he had no information other than the name and place of residence.

Once again thankyou and when I get the birth certs - I shall post again and relate the findings.

Regards
Linda

Um ... speaking of which:


Philip (Glover) 1808 Kimberley, Notts


is in the tree of a GR member ... use the Search Trees button/function to find and contact that member.

Finally found Philip in 1861 -- Benjamin and Eliza not with him:

Name: Philip Glow - it says Glover
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Glow
Where born: Longhoughton, Leicestershire, England

Civil parish: Greasley
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Registration district: Basford

Philip Glow 52
Ann Glow 50
Benjamin Glow 21
Martha Glow 23
Walter Glow 16


Linda, if you can correct the census record at Ancestry, someone related to Philip may be more likely to find it if they search, and would be able to contact you if you enquire about his ancestry in your comments.

So ... the question isn't actually whether Philip had a brother Benjamin, it's whether Philip had a nephew Benjamin ... whose father's name could have been anything at all ...

Philip's son Benjamin could be named after his own father, as could Benjamin the possible nephew benamed after his father's father.


Where is Benjamin 1844 in the 1861 census? The only possible one I see is:

Name: Benjamin John Glover
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Boarder
Where born: London City

Civil parish: Wednesbury
Town: Wednesbury
County/Island: Staffordshire


-- middle name matches one of the middle names in the record posted by patchem.


The one in question in 1871
>> edit, no, this is the son of Philip

Name: Benjiman Glover
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriett Glover
Where born: Greasley, Nottinghamshire, England

No marriage or death in the index for Benjamin Joseph John Glover or Benjamin John Glover.


I agree that the 1844 birth certificate would be the place to start.


1841 census has:

Name: Benjamin Glover
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Poplar


Marriages Jun 1842
BOULTBIE Joseph John Poplar 2 285
> Glover Benjamin Poplar 2 285
? Goodliff Eliza Poplar 2 285
JOHNSON John Poplar 2 285
JOHNSON Jonn Poplar 2 285
RICHARDS Samuel George Poplar 2 285
RICHARDS Samuel Gould Poplar 2 285
RIPPINGHAM Ellen Poplar 2 285
ROAST Ann Poplar 2 285
? SELF Eliza Sarah Poplar 2 285

Births Mar 1843
Glover Eliza Jane Poplar 2 338

Deaths Mar 1862 ?
Glover Eliza Jane Basford 7b 60


"Our" Benjamin in 1891:

Name: Benjamin Glover
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Glover
Where born: Poplar, London, England

Civil parish: Chester
Town: Chester
County/Island: Cheshire

?
Births Sep 1844
Glover Benjamin Joseph John Poplar 2 326

If this is him, then birth certificate will have Mother's maiden name, so might then find marriage certificate, leading to Father's father's name.

Hmmmm, interesting Linda!

For Ref.........


1851 England Census
about Phillip Glover
Name: Phillip Glover
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Glover
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Greasley, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Greasley
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Greasley
ED, institution, or vessel: 5b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Phillip Glover 42
Ann Glover 42
Joseph Glover 16
Martha Glover 14
Benjamin Glover 11
Walter Glover 6
Eliza Glover 9 (Visitor) Born London
Benjamin Glover 6 (Visitor) Born London
Jane Glover

My reasons for asking if Phillip may have had a brother Benjamin are:

In the 1851 census Phillip is shown to be living in Nottinghamshire with his family and two 'Visitors' - Benjamin and Eliza (both born London) - not to be confused with the Benjamin that Phillip also has as a son. I 'THINK' the visitor Benjamin 'MAY' be my great grandfather and I know his father's name was Benjamin too. My great grandfathers obituary states that he was 'orphaned' as a child so I'm THINKING he may be living with perhaps his Uncle Phillip but he does state in further census returns that he was from Nottinghamshire except in the 1891 census he states he's born in Poplar, London which leads me to 'THINK' this is him on the 1851 census living with Phillip and family. If I could ascertain if Phillip had a brother Benjamin then I might be getting somewhere. I do not know who the 'visitor' Eliza is - perhaps his sister but I have no info regarding this.

I hope that makes sense.

Regards
Linda

Phillip Glover
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1810 — Mount Sorrel, Leicestershire, England
christening:
baptism:
death:
burial:
residence: 1881 — Greasley, Nottinghamshire, England
parents:
spouse:
child: Martha Holland
marriage:

record title: England and Wales Census, 1881
name: Phillip Glover
age: 71
gender: Male
birth year: 1810
birthplace: Mount Sorrel, Leicestershire, England
relationship to head of household: Head
marital condition: Widower
profession/occupation: Cordwainer
address: Shepherds Ter
census place: Greasley, Nottinghamshire, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341792
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 3321 / 148
page number: 53

Benjamin Glover
England Marriages, 1538–1973
birth:
christening:
baptism:
death:
burial:
residence:
parents:
spouse: Ann Hickling
child:
marriage: 03 Feb 1818 — Hathern,Leicester,England

record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: Benjamin Glover
bride's name: Ann Hickling
marriage date: 03 Feb 1818
marriage place: Hathern,Leicester,England
indexing project (batch) number: M05934-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 590783

have no more info Janey you'll be relieved to hear!!

This is the one I posted about -- edit -- I posted the 1841 and 1851, Ann o' GG has just posted the 1861 for the same person (and isn't about to post the individual records for each household member, I hpe!!):

Name: Benjamin Glover
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 25 Dec 1825
Baptism/Christening Place: MOUNTSORREL,LEICESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Benjamin Glover
Mother's Name: Ann
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03469-2 (extracted record)
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 592582


http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html


There are many other parish records for Glover in Mountsorrel, but no Philip.

Benjamin Glover
England and Wales Census, 1861
birth: 1824 — Mountsorrel, Leicestershire
christening:
baptism:
death:
burial:
residence: 1861 — Hathern, Leicestershire, England
parents:
spouse:
child:
marriage:

record title: England and Wales Census, 1861
name: Benjamin Glover
event: Census
event date: 1861
gender: Male
age: 37
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Mountsorrel, Leicestershire
record type: Household
registration district: Loughborough
sub-district: 1 Loughborough
civil parish: Hathern
county: Leicestershire

Third time lucky, maybe.

Perhaps Linda can see why I first and then others would be asking *about Benjamin*.

We doubt that Linda just invented the name Benjamin and the notion that Philip Glover had a brother by that name.

We think there is a reason for this question.

We think Linda knows something that leads her to think that Philip Glover may have had a brother named Benjamin.

We don't know what that reason is. What facts there might be that lead Linda to think there was a Benjamin Glover who may have been a brother of Philip Glover.

Odd coincidence that I found a Benjamin Glover, and maybe his father Benjamin Glover, born in Mount Sorrel, the birth place mentioned for Philip Glover, but this isn't the Benjamin Glover in question.

So we wonder ... WHO IS the Benjamin Glover in question?

Seems such a reasonable question, doesn't it?

1881

Phillip GLOVER Head W Male 71 Mount Sorrel, Leicester, England Cordwainer
Martha HOLLAND Daur M Female 44 Kimberley, Nottingham, England None


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Shepherds Ter
Census Place Greasley, Nottingham, England
Family History Library Film 1341792
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3321 / 148
Page Number 53

unfortunately this record will not open fully for me

Phillip Glover
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1810 — Mount Sorrel, Leicester, England
christening:
baptism:
death:
burial:
residence: 1881 — Greasley, Nottingham, England

Hi Linda, can i please just ask what information you have that leads you into thinking that Phillip may have a brother Benjamin ?
I have had a route around but cant find any connection.
Regards........PH.

Against my better judgement I am responding again, however I do not wish to get involved in any 'tit for tat' scenarios. However, I should have thanked Dea for her assistance. The Phillip you had in the 1841 census is correct. I can follow Phillip on most of the census returns but I was just trying to find out if he possibly had a brother named Benjamin but I'm not sure how to go about it.

Thanks once again Dea and apologies for not mentioning it earlier. Also, I would like to say that I'm using the PC in the library and so its not always possible for me to 'stay on line' for any immediate responses (time constraints etc.,).

Regards
Linda Banks

Thanks Janey for the explaination on what is on an English death certificate, I wasn't sure if they contained as much information as the Australian ones.

Linda was any of the information found by anyone the family you are looking for? I thought Janey had given a lot of assistance, but you have discounted all of that but not commented on Dea's find.

I think let's just concentrate on looking for who you want and not get the thread bogged down in arguing if possible. Plenty of people are extremely helpful, in my experience.