Find Ancestors

You're welcome, Alan, any time!

............. You did notice there is a page 2 once you posted above, there, right?

Percy Green Born 1910 Died 1918 one year before his mother died (Susan Sarah Jane Green (nee Moulden)
Marguerite Green born 1904 died 1987 (married Humbles)
Olive Green born 1908 died --------- (married Small)
Ivy Green born 1910 died ---------- (married Richardson)

1891 in Preston, Sussex

James Glendenning 59
Frederick G Glendenning 18
Ernest A Glendenning 16
> Annie R Glendenning 13 - born Brighton
Mary M Gibbons 15
Mary Stonehouse 42

1881

James Glendenning 49
Anne E.D. Glendenning 44
Clara Glendenning 24
William T. Glendenning 19
Robert J. Glendenning 17
John H. Glendenning 15
Walter Glendenning 10
George F. Glendenning 8
Ernest A. Glendenning 6
> Anne R. Glendenning 3

The habitual inclusion of a middle initial is often an indication that the person goes by their middle name ... although here all of the household members have a middle initial.

Blamed if I can find her in 1901.

I have to go crash my Firefox and restart it before it makes me insane ...

But I wonder ... if Annie Rosaline Glendenning Gunn and her husband were estranged early after 1911, did Harry Gunn have children with Ada Stone early also?

Births Sep 1913
Stone Thomas S C Stone Cuckfield 2b 271
Births Jun 1915
Stone Vera B Stone Cuckfield 2b 244

The herring could be growing ever redder, if herring it is, but as you said, worth exploring. ;)

The salient fact being: Annie Rosaline Glendening Gunn's husband remarried immediately (to Ada Stone) after ARGG's death in 1932, indicating a long estrangement from ARGG and partnership with Ada Stone, and ARGG died not long after 1928, when Rose Green disappeared from records -- making ARGG a candidate for being Rose Green, the partner of Arthur Green in 1927.

Births Sep 1878
Gunn Harry Brapple Steyning 2b 282


1911

GUNN HARRY BRAPPLE 1878 33 Cuckfield Sussex
GUNN ANNIE ROSALINE 1877 34

No kids. None born after 1911, also no Gunn-Stone births. Ah, but Stone was possibly Ada's first married surname ... No Gunn births in Cuckfield 1911-1925, though.


Births Sep 1877
Glendening Annie Rosaline Brighton 2b 224


Name: Harry B Gunn
Birth Date: abt 1879
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1951
Age at Death: 72
Registration district: Cuckfield
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 159

Name: Ada Gunn
Birth Date: 5 May 1885
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1972
Age at Death: 86
Registration district: Cuckfield
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 631

probably

Births Jun 1885
Stone Ada Croydon 2a 219

Annie Rosaline Glendening Gunn's husband remarried immediately after her death:

Marriages Dec 1932
Gunn Harry B Stone Cuckfield 2b 437
Stone Ada Gunn Cuckfield 2b 437

a good indication (especially at age 50+) that the couple was estranged and the widower remarried at the first opportunity, i.e. once the party of the couple who was not free to marry originally became free because his spouse died.

So your theory could be wrong, but it's a functioning one still!

Oops, we hopscotched.

It would be an odd coincidence that she was married to another unrelated (at least not sibling) Green!

No Annie R Gunn born 1876-1880. [edit to delete original wrong guess]

I'd say the Annie R Gunn who died 1932 was this one:

Marriages Sep 1904
Glendening Annie Rosaline Cuckfield 2b 309
Gunn Harry Brapple Cuckfield 2b 309

making her still a possible.

*Everything* is worth exploring!


editing to take the random stupidfaces out of the post ... grrrrrrrr

In 1911, Arthur and Susan had quite a number of children

GREEN PERCY 1910 4 MONTHS Berkhampstead Hertfordshire
GREEN IVY 1910 1
GREEN OLIVE 1908 3
GREEN ARTHUR 1907 4
GREEN JOHN 1906 5
GREEN MARGUERITE 1904 7
GREEN ROBERT 1903 8

some of whom were still quite young when Susan died (e.g. Percy would have been about 8).

Does none of them have children living who might know whom their parent lived with as a child, or know anything about Arthur's death?

Thanks Janey. I asked because i was going off on something of a tangent 'just in case'...I wanted to see if Arthur had a middle name, which he evidently didn't.

this was my little thought...

that Rose 'Green' might have been similar age or younger than Arthur...therefore it might be poss' that she had children?

Births Sep 1920 (>99%)

Green Rose A Gunn Brighton 2b 395 ( and a son a few years later)..but checked for a 'Gunn/Green' marriage

Marriages Sep 1918 (>99%)


Green William Gunn Brighton 2b 642
Gunn Annie Green Brighton 2b 642

Now this as you can see is before Susan's death, but I did wonder if Susan died elsewhere whether the couple were still together ( and given the thought that my g/father married with an assumed first name as his 1 st wife was still alive).

following that a death

Deaths Mar 1932 (>99%)

Gunn Annie R ( for Rose?) 54 Brighton 2b 404

convoluted thinking and almost certainly wrong lol, but I thought it worth a little exploration.

I had wondered whether Brighton might have been just a holiday address; the address on the death certificate is (at least now) a large residence, some 4000 sq ft, not far from the water. But if Rose Green was at that address the following year, I would guess not.

Rose

Marriages Dec 1902
Green Arthur Swindon 5a 27
MOULDEN Susan Sarah J Swindon 5a 27

Births Sep 1873
Green Arthur Richmond, S. 2a 315
(East Sheen / Mortlake)


1901

Name: Arthur Green
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's name: Robert Green
Mother's name: Hannah Green
Where born: East Sheen, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Great Berkhampstead
Ecclesiastical parish: Berkhampstead St Peter
Town: Berkhampstead
County/Island: Hertfordshire


From 1871-1901 censuses, three siblings:

Robert c1865
John c1867
Mary c1882

bear with me a minute Alan, do you know where Arthur Green was born?

Janey Canuck) Yes you are perfectly correct, 1919 was the year my grandmother died 28/02/1919 to be precise

Alan

Is this your grandmother's (Arthur's wife's) death?

Deaths Mar 1919
Green Susan S J 42 Berkhampstead 3a 1303

(Yes, that took some detective work, but that's what you pay us for! ;) )

If Arthur didn't remarry, then likely Rose Green was already married when they lived together.

Aha. That one big fact is the one that helps -- that she stated she was his wife. (I had wondered too whether she was a daughter of his with a woman he wasn't married to, so she had a different surname, or maybe a married daughter of his.)

It's a start to know these things!

The usual reason at the time for people partnering without marrying (since few people did it out of pure choice) was that one or both of them was already married.

Your grandfather was married to your grandmother? Can you tell us when your grandmother died -- i.e. was he still married to her in 1927, or was he a widower? If he was widowed by 1927, probably Rose Green was married to someone else, and she was using Arthur's surname publicly rather than her husband's surname. (Women seldom reverted to their birth surnames even if they were long estranged from their husbands.)

So your grandfather was about 54 when he died. If Rose was around the same age, it's probably unlikely that she married (again) herself.

But sadly, although she was using his surname while they lived together, she very probably reverted to her "official" surname after his death, and I imagine it will be impossible to trace her.

(edited because I was confused and thinking that Green was Rose's surname rather than Arthur's)

Mike) I do not know her birth date as she only appears on my grandfather's death certificate which she was his wife, but there was civil ceremony or no record of it.
Yes she could have remarried but as she did not marry my grandfather she could have used any name she liked.
Ginny) I do not know any more about her, she appeared on my grandfather's death cert in 1927, lived at 11 King Street Brighton until 1928 then disappears.
DOB not known her married name not known.
Flick) I do not know if her name was GREEN at birth but she is not my grandfather's daughter. I do not know when or where she was born and I do not know what family she had.
Jan) As I have stated above she was on my grandfather's death cert and she said she was his wife but no record of their marriage can be found so she must have been his common law wife.
Margee) As stated she was my grandfather's common law wife and lived with him at 11 King Street Brighton and was still there until 1928 (electoral roll from Brighton and Hove).
Flick) Common law wife.
Jan) Wife but no record of marriage therefore must be common law wife.
Prickly Holly) My grandfather was Arthur Green born 1873.
The Brighton and Hove historical records told me that there was no death of a Rose Green with the address of 11King Street so they can not help me. If there is anything else I can do to help to find her I will only be too pleased to assist.

And yet a random post in this thread has been "marked as answered" ...

That doesn't mean you have answered that post. It means your question has been answered. Now your thread shows in the board list as answered, so people won't pay attention to it.

Have you read the post at the top of the Find Ancestors board about how to use the board?

Oh well, maybe the good fairy will come along and say Rose Green in Brighton! Why, we went to school together!

People post on this board to get help, generally. In fact, you asked whether anyone could help. Generally, people are appreciative of help offered ... and generally, people express that appreciation by saying "thank you" ...


Deaths in Brighton of Rose Greens who were adults in 1928

Rose Elizabeth Green 1894 Jul-Aug-Sep 1983 Brighton East Sussex
Rose Annie Green 1901 Oct-Nov-Dec 1969 Brighton Sussex
Rose Lilian Green 1904 Oct-Nov-Dec 1973 Brighton Sussex


Is there some reason, Alan, that you refuse to reply in the thread as you have been asked to do repeatedly, preferring to make people go back and forth from this board to their inbox?

Odd things.

PM received ...

" I do not know any more than what I have told you."

Hi Alan.........perhaps it might help if you tell us who your Grandfather was and when and where was he born? Perhaps the 1911 census might give some clues!

nudge

Have you looked at the 1911 census for your grandfather?
There are 2 Rose Greens in Brighton on that census, if one of them is with your grandfather then it will give you an age for her at least.

edit , the Rose Emma Green in 1911 is her birth name 1879