Find Ancestors

Thanks again Astra for all your help.

This is maybe Sarah Ellen's birth registration. It could be that the P stands for Pemberton.

Births Mar 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOWARTH Sarah Ellen P Bury 8c 566

I think that is because the original image is such a mess. It looks as though the 'in law' part and the 'grand' part for the grandchildren has been added afterwards so it could just have been put on the wrong line. But there are a few crossings out and alterations. It looks as though Fred's age was originally entered as 25 and then changed to 29.
I'm quite sure thought that this is the couple who married in 1908 as Fred Pemberton and Emma Haworth.

Thank you so much. The family on the 1901 census was the one I thought the most likely but as there were a few other Emma Howarth's in the same area born around the same date i wasn't 100 per cent sure.
I see there is a grandaughter called Sarah Ellen and a son called John. My grandfather was born in October 1908. It is very strange that they are listed as Howarth and Fred is their son and Emma their daughter in law.
Thanks again for taking the time to do this for me.
Diana

Emma's birth

Births Sep 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Howarth Emma Bury 8c 480

Emma in 1901

HOWARTH, John Head Married M 48 1853 Spinner In Cotton Mill
Heywood
Lancashire VIEW
HOWARTH, Mary E Wife Married F 47 1854
Heywood
Lancashire VIEW
HOWARTH, Joseph Son Single M 26 1875 Piecer Cotton Mill
Heywood
Lancashire VIEW
>>>HOWARTH, Emma Daughter Single F 17 1884 Frame Teeter Cotton Mill
Heywood
Lancashire VIEW
HOWARTH, Robert Son Single M 12 1889
Heywood
Lancashire VIEW
HOWARTH, Sarah E Daughter Single F 7 1894
Heywood
Lancashire VIEW
HOWARTH, William H Son Single M 4 1897
Heywood
Lancashire VIEW
BINKER, Katie Boarder Single F 19 1882 Frame Tenter Cotton Mill
Heywood
Lancashire VIEW

Civil Parish:
Heywood Municipal Borough:
Address:
23, Merrick Street, Heywood County:
Lancashire

This looks like the family in 1911. Named as Howarth and living with Emma's mother. Married 3 years 2 children born and 2 living so Sarah Ellen is their daughter. You still need to confirm this with John Robert's birth certificate.

HOWARTH, Mary Ellen Widow Widow F 52 1859 Does Not Work Heywood Lancs VIEW
HOWARTH, William Son Single M 13 1898 Mule Spinning Room-Tuber Heywood Lancs VIEW
JOHNSON, Richard Boarder Single M 23 1888 Mule Spinning Room-Big Heywood Lancs VIEW
>>HOWARTH, Emma Daughter In Law Married
3 years F 26 1885 Card Room Tenter Heywood Lancs VIEW
>>HOWARTH, Fred Son Married M 29 1882 Laid Y Railway Works Stores Bury Lancs VIEW
>>HOWARTH, Sarah Ellen Granddaughter Single F 4 1907 Heywoods Lancs VIEW
>>HOWARTH, John Grandson Single M 3 1908 Heywoods Lancs VIEW

Address:
27 Merrick St Heywood Lancashire County:
Lancashire

Thank you.

You can easily order certificates on line from General Register Office (GRO) - http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

They cost £9.25.

Thank you for your help. I really appreciate you all taking your time to try and help me. I will try and find out more information about John and his parents, although I am pretty certain his mother was Howarth. A family member also told me that she thought his father was called Fred.
Thanks for all your help.
Diana

Diana,

At fear of repeating what others have already said you need John Robert's birth certificate before you do anything else. That will give you his mothers maiden name and give you his fathers occupation in 1908.

But Diana - you say you are "almost certain" that John's father is Fred. He could be Frederick, or something else entirely. Without a marriage or birth cert you are risking going badly wrong.
Jan

Jan,
I have found Fred on the 1901 census before he married aged 21 and it looked like he was a Labourer for a Boiler Maker. I can't read the writing very well.

Hello Diana, as already stated you could end up following the wrong line altogether without some verification.

What hard facts do you have?

Total waste of time looking for Emma if you aren't sure of your facts.
Jan

Can anyone suggest an easy to find out more about my Emma Howarth?

Also there is an Emma Pemberton living in Bury aged 28 on the 1911 census but unless I subscribe I can't find out who she is living with and I don't have an address either.

I appreciate the help of everyone who has responded.
Thanks again

Oh dear - you might have gone completely astray here. You might well need his birth cert.
As you do not have an occupation for Fred, is that because you do not have John's marriage cert either? In fact you say "almost certain". You do need some certs here.
Jan

Not getting very far with the 1911 census but could this be Fred's death?

Name: Fred Pemberton
Birth Date: abt 1880
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1931
Age at Death: 51
Registration district: Bury
Registration County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 725

I would say that you really need a copy of John Robert's birth certificate to find out the exact details of his mother.

Yes that's him. I don't have his birth certificate but know his date of birth. I am wondering if the family lived somewhere else for a while around 1911 then moved back to the Heywood/Bury area later. I am almost certain that his father was Fred and when I found the marriage for a Fred Pemberton and Emma Howarth, I assumed that was his mother. There are some distance Howarth cousins in the family. Thanks again for all your help.

For location

Births Dec 1908 (>99%)
Pemberton John Robert Bury 8c 533