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I have just read Tracey another thread by you on 9th may 2011 about this family.

I think you should have tagged this thread onto it as some info given here you already had,i.e 1911 census Arthur and Ellen's marriage etc.

Maryb

To all those that have been so helpful, thankyou so very much however, i'm going to sign off now, brain is fried its been a long day, the last 6 hours search in total has finished me off, and I have a 4.00am start tomorrow.
I will resume again 2 morrow, I will post any nuggets of gold 1881 - ellen
1891 - thomas if I get lucky,

Again thankyou all for your time and effort.x

Tracey

Think Ellen maybe Helen then, going to check again, again the census folk and hearing, but as Helen it would be right, back in a mo.

ps work wise guess she could be a domestic servant?

Any sign of Ellen in 1881??

Maryb

No Mary I haven't, I haven't even found her as a probable with maiden name Elizabeth Hardacre born Oxton, Cheshire 1842, however given her age and not knowing her circumstance at 29 and widowed re-marriage would be a good prospect regarding stability.

Tracey.

Have you found Ellen/Helens mum in 1891,could she have remarried after death of Samuel as she was only 29 when he died.

Maryb.

Margee

I think this could be a possible but can't find him in 1891, hence trying to find him at a relatives house. Can only presume he was in transit and missed being polled!

However have got Arthur H Owen md Helen Pritchard 1893 Stoke T 6b 385.

Tracey

Well that explains why the 1914 marriage was for Arthur W.S. instead of Arthur H. A different guy, your Arthur H. had already died. As you say, possible that they never married. I tend to agree with Mary that Thomas Owen Pritchard is yours and that he was given father's surname as second name. But where was the little guy in 1891?

1911 56 Park Road Hale Cheshire
Helen Owen 42 born Wavertree a WIDOW a line is were it says how many years married 5 children all alive
Ida 1897 Staffs
Desmond 1899 Hale
Edith 1900 Hale
Mary 1903/4/ Hale.

Death??
Arthur harry owen born @ 1844 died Burton on trent Staff ordshire J/A/S 1904

Maryb

Just to add to the mix, correspondence has got me thinking somethings not right and I've found it, Thomas married in 1909, his father Arthur is listed as deceased, so could not of married ellen/helen in 1914............lordy, lordy............maybe Arthur and Ellen/Helen never married!!

Margee, it makes for total confusion, when I think I've made sense of it someone points something out that confuses things more, I like to think the census folk were hard of hearing, illiterate but kind hearted folk.lol.

Tracey

Okay Mary i'll add yours to the GRO.lol., Ellen was visiting the Penningtons
in Cheshire, Arthur H owen was listed as lodger, occupation coachman, domestic. piece 2828, folio 16, page 26.

I don't understand why he can't be Thomas Owen Pritchard born July West Derby.
If Ellen was unmarried it seems likely her son's middle name would be the fathers.
He died 28.2.1919 age 30 so that also fits with birth of July 1888.

Where was Ellen in 1891.
Was the reason Ellen and Arther didn't marry as his previous wife if he had one may have still been alive.

Found her in 1891 now.
1891 Knutsford Cheshire a visitor and single,at same address Arthur H Owen born Welspool @ 1843 married and he was a Coachman /Domestic as he was in 1901.

Maryb

They do make it confusing for you, don't they? I see on the 1891 census Arthur H. is 48 but in 1901 he's 50 whereas Ellen/Helen went from 22 to 32.
I see also that Arthur was married in 1891. Guess that's why they waited so long to marry, probably had to wait for first wife to die?

by 1901 ellen and Arthur were living together and had further offspring all bearing Arthurs surname, I understand its confusing, tell me I had a hard time getting anywhere with him.

I do know of a couple that had 12 children out of wedlock and eventually married when the youngest was 10, all were registered with his surname!!

However until I get a birth Cert I won't know if Thomas was truly his or another mans.

Tracey

Oh, I see, on the 1901 census Arthur & Helen are living as man & wife.
Although on th census he's Arthur H. Owen and the 1914 marriage is Arthur W.S. Owen.

This is confusing! You say he turns up on the 1901 census as Thomas Pritchard Owen but his parents didn't marry until 1914.

Margee,

his mother helen/ellen Pritchard, married Arthur H Owen shortly before he enlisted in 1914. Arthur was 20+yrs her senior.

Tracey

Hi Jackie and Margee,

Looks like I'm gonna have an expensive weekend at the GRO.lol.

I'm gonna go with Thomas Pritchard, and Thomas Pritchard Owen, one of thems gonna come up Trumps, but he definately wasn't Thomas Owen Pritchard.

hopefully then, I'll have a more accurate chance of finding him in 1891.

Tracey

Well it sounds as if the man she later married was the father of her son and she gave him the father's surname as his second name. Perhaps after she married him the son took his surname. Would he then be Thomas Owen Pritchard Owen?

Edit: But, oops, she didn't marry until 1914?

Marriages Mar 1914 (>99%)
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OWEN Arthur W S Pritchard Anglesey 11b 629
Pritchard Helen Owen Anglesey 11b 629