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http://www.genesreunited.co.nz/boards.page/board/ancestors/thread/1271422

Probable marriage of Kathleens parents
Annie Wright married Albert Sword 1919 Birmingham 6d 784
Albert Sword born 1895 Dec Q Aston

1901 Aston 5 Mills Bldgs Emily St
Thomas sword 33 Spoon and Fork Polisher
Mary 30 wife
Thomas 11 son
Arthur 8 son
ALBERT 6 son
James 4 son
Ernest 7 son
Mary E 8mths daur all born Birmingham

I wonder whether Toni didn't realize there's a page 2?

(I always delete the M and F when I copy 1911 census records -- people always think they're initials!)

The M isn't a middle initial. It stands for Male.

Rose

Uh, you're welcome.

We managed to find out your nan was Kathleen Sword born 1930 and died 1972.

I guess we needn't have spent our time finding that out then.

Thank you Rose, Bert was definately my grandfathers brother but the list beneath i'm really confused with as my grandfather Fred's middle name was most definately Thomas? I've managed to find out my nan (who he never married as he was still married to Agnes Chandler) was Kathleen Sword born 21st Spet 1930 and she died of womb cancer in March 1972, I had this info from my father but he refuses to tell me anymore than that, are you able to help me? Thanks again x

We were beavering away at the same time -- so that makes it unanimous!

There is very little choice for births of a Kath* or Cath* Sword. My bet would be:

Name: Kathleen M Sword
Mother's Maiden Surname: Wright
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1931*
Registration district: Birmingham S
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume Number: 6d
Page Number: 168

Name: Kathleen Margaret Hoare
Birth Date: 21 Nov 1930*
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1972
Age at Death: 41
Registration district: Kingswood
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 1482

*born late 1930, registeed early 1931

I think that makes a perfect fit for the info you have.

In fact yes, the death was registered under both surnames:

Name: Kathleen Margaret Sword
Birth Date: 21 Nov 1930
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1972
Age at Death: 41
Registration district: Kingswood
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 1482

Also registered under Hoare.

Rose

Kathleen Margaret Sword died in 1972 in the right area so must be your nan. Born November 1930.

Rose

Wonder if this is Kathy?

Births Mar 1931
Sword Kathleen M Wright Birmgham S. 6d 168

Rose

Did you know this because you already have Daniel in your tree?

Rose

A tree on Ancestry has Bertram's parents as Harriett and Daniel:

Marriages Dec 1898
Hoare Daniel Northampton 3b 194
Savage Harriett Caroline Northampton 3b 194

Rose

Other children:

Births Sep 1911
HOARE George H Savage Kettering 3b 275

Births Dec 1913
HOARE HILDA SAVAGE Aston 6d 804

Births Mar 1916
Hoare Sarah A Savage Aston 6d 620


Births Sep 1917
Hoare Harry Savage Aston 6d 545

Births Sep 1920
Hoare Cecil Savage Birmingham 6d 836
Hoare Cyril Savage Birmingham 6d 836


Rose

Think I found him:

Schedule type Last names First names Sex Birth year Age in 1911 District / other County / other Transcript Original page
HOUSEHOLD HOARE DANIEL M 1871 40 Kettering Northamptonshire
HOUSEHOLD HOARE ALBERT M 1904 7 Kettering Northamptonshire
HOUSEHOLD HOARE BERT M 1908 3 Kettering Northamptonshire
HOUSEHOLD HOARE FRED M 1906 5 Kettering Northamptonshire
**HOUSEHOLD HOARE KATE F 1880 31 Kettering Northamptonshire
HOUSEHOLD HOARE MABEL F 1899 12 Kettering Northamptonshire
HOUSEHOLD HOARE WILLIAM M 1902 9 Kettering Northamptonshire

** Does the image really say Kate for this?

Rose

I'm fairly certain this is a brother:

Births Mar 1908
Hoare Bertram Northampton 3b 63

I can't find him in 1911 either and there's a marriage in Birmingham that fits.

Rose

I know my nan Ms Sword was a whole lot younger than my grandad as well, not sure if that helps, I wish I knew her name I feel so disrespectful referring to my nan as "Ms Sword"!

I'm trying to find him on the 1911 census and there's no sign of him? :-\

My grandfathers name was definately Frederick Thomas Hoare as I named my first born after his middle name :-)

Yes I know Rose, it's all very very confusing and quite concerning. He had a daughter called Irene with his wife Agnes Chandler, he then ran off with my nan who I never got to meet as she died at a very young age but I know her surname was Sword, she was known as cathy/kathy that could be catherine/katherine/kathleen....who knows :-/ They had a few children together (one being my father) but they called one Irene...when he already had an Irene with Agnes, strange to me but hey, maybe that's how it was back then?! I really appreciate all of this thank you so ver much, if you find anymore details i'd greatly appreciate them xxx