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Wonder if anyone could please help as i have hit a brick wall. My great grandma Florence Butler Fogerty was born in 1886 and apparently her father is called patrick fogerty and mother mary ann downes. I think that this is infact incorrect as i think Patrick was in prison and infact someone else, will put down who when i find my paperwork out. Can anyone else please help...

David, where were they from?

We need that other info you have, it's no good us looking up the incorrect stuff! :-)

Who did your great-gran marry?

What names are on certificates you've got?

Which ( if any) of these is correct ?...


Births Mar 1886 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOGERTY Florence Butler - Leeds 9b 477



Marriages Mar 1866 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fogarty Patrick Leeds 9b 606
MALONEY Peter Leeds 9b 606
MOLONEY Peter Leeds 9b 606
O'Connell Jane Leeds 9b 606
O'Donnell Mary A Leeds 9b 606



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1868 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Downer Mary Leeds 9b 584
Downes Mary Ann Leeds 9b 584
FOGERTY Patrick Leeds 9b 584
Holroyd Mary Leeds 9b 584
Younghusband Thomas Henry Leeds 9b 584
Youngirusband Thomas Henry Leeds 9b 584


Household: 1881

John MARTIN Convict U Male 28 Lambeth, Surrey, England Plasterer
Robert FOSTER Convict M Male 32 Scotland Puddler (Iron)
John MORRIS Convict U Male 43 London, Middlesex, England Dock Laborer
William GREEN Convict U Male 41 Holme Lacy, Hereford, England Farm Laborer
>>>>>>>> Patrick FOGERTY Convict M Male 41 Bradford, York, England Gas Fitter

i have my great grans birth certificate which straight away i can see the difference, she is down as Florence Butler, born on the 15th of january 1886 in Leeds. Fathers name is Patrick Fogerty and mother Mary Ann Fogerty, formerly Downes. Right my great gran married my great grandad who was Francis Loughlan on 15th january 1916 in Leeds. My great grans mum and assumed father were married on the 13th sept 1868, fogerty was mis-spelt as fogeaty. Any more info then please let me know thank you

I'm sure that is correct for patrick been a convict and i'm sure on the 1891 census he was moved down south but on one of the census' Mary's next door nieghbour or owner of the house was mr butler, can you please confirm this?

Butler is Florence's middle name.

Father was a convict in 1881, 5 years before Florence was born
Do you have records of when Patrick was released from prison?

No, alot of the research was done by my mum who unfortunately passed away at the beginning of this month...

Interesting???

1891 England Census
about Flora Butler Name: Flora Butler
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3690
Folio: 90
Page Number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Ann Downs 40 >> Widow
Thomas Butler 53 >> Widow
Sarah Butler 10
Flora Butler 5
Louisa Butler 1


All the Butler girls are stated as Niece

1901 England Census
about Sarah B Fogerty Name: Sarah B Fogerty
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: West Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 79
Piece: 4229
Folio: 128
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Butler 39
Sarah E Butler 37
Polly Butler 16
Samuel Butler 13
Ernest Butler 9
Edward Butler 5
Charles Butler 1
Sarah B Fogerty 19

West Yorkshire, England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Sarah Butler Foggerty Name: Sarah Butler Foggerty
Birth Date: 29 Nov 1881
Parish: Leeds, St Peter (Leeds Parish Church)
Baptism Date: 25 Dec 1881
Father's name: Foggerty
Mother's name: Mary Ann Foggerty

West Yorkshire, England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Lily Foggaty Name: Lily Foggaty
Birth Date: 3 Mar 1884
Parish: Leeds, St Peter (Leeds Parish Church)
Baptism Date: 9 Mar 1884
Father's name: Foggaty
Mother's name: Mary Ann Foggaty

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
about Patrick Fogerty Name: Patrick Fogerty >> Brickmaker
Birth Year: abt 1849
Age: 19
Marriage or Bann Date: 13 Sep 1868
Parish: Leeds, St Mary The Virgin, Quarry Hill
Father's name: Patrick Fogerty >> Paver
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Downes
Spouse's Father's Name: William Downes >> Turner???

1881 England Census
about Mary A. Fanherty Name: Mary A. Fanherty
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Housekeeper (Head) (Housekeeper)
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: No.23 Busfield St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Shuttle Cock Maker S & Wm (Tor)

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4517
Folio: 88
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Butler 42
Mary A. Fanherty 31
Margrett A. Fanherty 12
William Fanherty 10
Emma B. Fanherty 1

On marriage cert, Patrick ( a paver) is 19 in 1868 so born c 1849
The Patrick ( Gas Fitter) in prison in 1881 is 41 so born c 1840

Is it the same man ?

So Patrick never shows on any census with his wife!!

1871 England Census
about Margaret A Downes Name: Margaret A Downes
[Mary Ann Downes]
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Ann Downes
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: Leeds
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Household schedule number: 95
Piece: 4554
Folio: 13
Page Number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Downes 48
Margaret A Downes 20 << Married
Margaret Downes 18
Maria Downes 13
Margaret A Fougerty 2 <<<<<<<< Grandaughter
William Fougerty 11 Months <<<<<<< Grandson

This maybe Thomas Butlers death??

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Butler Thomas 61 Leeds 9b 369


Now in 1901 Florence and her mother were living at 11 Bouldance ( ???) Yard....... think I would be tempted to order this death cert and see who registered it and also see the address it states.

Although Mary Ann Downes married Patrick Fogerty I have a sneaky feeling (especially with the kids middle name) that Thomas Butler was the father of the children born from around 1879.


Dee x

This could be Patrick;

1861 England Census
about Patrick Fogarty Name: Patrick Fogarty
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: South East Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 29
Piece: 3373
Folio: 92
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Martin Cunningham 24
Mary Cunningham 22
Andrew Cunningham 3
Mary Cunningham 1
Peter Cunningham 30
Jeremiah Dooley 16
Patrick Fogarty 16
Mike Fogarty 13
John Weakly 18


Looking at the Criminal records for Patrick Fogerty there are quite a few for West Yorks..... It maybe the same chap who was in and out of prison from 1867 until the 1880's

Confirms Emma's parentage;

West Yorkshire, England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Emma Butler Name: Emma Butler
Birth Date: 5 Nov 1879
Parish: Leeds, St Peter (Leeds Parish Church)
Baptism Date: 22 Feb 1880
Father's name: Thomas Butler >> BUTCHER!!
Mother's name: Mary Ann Butler

Address Buschfield Street...... same as the 1881 census

AND:

West Yorkshire, England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Florence Butler Name: Florence Butler
Birth Date: 15 Jan 1886
Parish: Leeds, St Peter (Leeds Parish Church)
Baptism Date: 29 Aug 1886
Father's name: Thomas Butler >> BUTCHER
Mother's name: Mary Ann Butler

Address High Street.

David

I think if this were my ancestors and although the surname Fogerty plays a part in the Ancestry....... I would strongly consider the fact that Florence was indeed Thomas Butlers daughter in almost everything except her last surname.

Dee x