Find Ancestors

1901 There is a John Richard Hartley 34 with a Clara no children,and one with a Jane with a few children.

The one with Jane (I think) is John REANEY Hartley.

But I am conceding defeat...

Can't find a marriage for Sarah (Ann) Cox to John Richard Hartley. So he appears to have married in 1885 to either Sarah Rebecca Whitehouse or Sarah Eleanor Gibson...but he's not with a wife called Sarah anything in 1891. The "wife" on Albert's birth certificate is at her mother's in King's Norton. And she is "widowed" in Edgbaston in 1901 with son Albert with her aunt in Worcestershire...only John Richard wasn't dead......and I can't find a death for either of them :-(

Oh and in 1911 he claims to have been married for 25 years and have had two children still living - so assuming Albert is one who's the other??? :-S

looks like he married Sarah Rebecca Whtiehouse


Marriages Jun 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fuller George Bradford, Y. 9b 298
Gibson Sarah Eleanor Bradford, Y. 9b 298
>>>>HARTLEY John Richard Bradford Y. 9b 298
>>>>WHITEHOUSE Sarah Rebecca Bradford, Y. 9b 298



1891

here's George Fuller with Sarah E Fuller

FULLER, George Head Married M 28 1863 Police Constable
Suffolk VIEW
FULLER, Sarah E Wife Married F 25 1866
Bradford
Yorkshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
3619 Folio:
79 Page:
25 Registration District:
Bradford

Civil Parish:
Bowling Municipal Borough:
Bradford Address:
23, Pembroke Street, Bowling, Bradford County:
Yorkshire (West Riding)

I know how you feel Jude and I concede defeat also BUT it still baffles me so I will be keeping it on my 'to work on' list and will let you know IF I find anything useful !!

Dea Xxx :-(

Choccy thanks...at least it eliminates one. Though it doesn't help the mystery....Dea please do.....!!!!!

I have tried everything I can think of. But to no avail...they didn't even have the decency to die before 1941 and leave a will with clues - ha ha!!

Why not order the marriage cert to confirm things?

Rose

I don't think it would tell me much Rose.

She (in the marriage) is Sarah Rebecca Whitehouse and my Sarah is Sarah Ann Cox. I can't find anything linking the two Sarahs....it might confirm it is or isn't the same John Richard

I am sure that John Richard son of William and Hannah (nee Nicholson) is the father of Albert and the "husband" of Sarah Ann - simply because of Albert's middle name.

I just have the resignation that they were not married and the fact they don't appear together at any census just reinforces this..I am sure 1891 census is her and Albert and that the 1901 censuses I have for Albert and her are kosher - but where is he in 1901? And then in 1911 I have him - for sure with brother Frederick and parents - and Albert in a stud in Yorkshire (this is a guess but it seems to fit)...but I don't have Sarah. And I don't have a death or a remarriage for her.

I guess this is the pleasure and the pain in what we are all doing... c'est la vie!

Sarah?

Births Mar 1866
WHITEHOUSE Sarah R W Bromwich 6b 698

Rose

Rose - the marriage to Sarah Whitehouse is a bit of a distraction at the mo...I may turn my attention back to it some time!

MEANWHILE....any Bradford historians out there? The place of birth is shown as Park Lodge New Hey Road. I think this is one of two lodges at Bowling Park Bradford. Was it ever used as a hospital? And then the informant's address at the time, Sarah Hartley, mother, was 1 Pen Street Bradford. I'd like to know if this was close to Bowling Park? In 1891 census - Sarah is back in Worcester by this time - John Richard Hartley is with his parents at Policeman's Lodge Bowling Park.

I am trying to connect the three!

Jude

Bradford registration district 1871
7,Pen Street Bowling Ref RG 4447.

So it does look like Pen St was in Bowling.
On 1901 Bowling Bradford census it shows Penn St district 8 > 22
Only numbers are 2-12 and 9-11.

Bowling Park Drive was formerley New Hey Road, don't know when it changed though.

1891 Bowling St Bartholomews district 9 > 26 New Hey Road.
Numbers 9/11/4 Penn Street D8 > 23.

All this area is on wakefield road bowling bradford.

The Sarah Rebecca Whithouse born 1866 West Brom is still with mum on 1891 census and single!

Maryb

Mary thanks.

I haven't quite worked out how Sarah Ann from Stourport could link up with John Richard from Bradford and have a child there. And I wasn't comfortable with Sarah Rebecca from West Brom doing same. Even if his job as a carter took him to the Midlands, surely any marriage would be there not in Bradford?

I am still confident that my Sarah Ann didn't marry and that she lied on the registration of Albert. And I never find them together so I do wonder if she ever returned to Bradford to come home to her mother in 1891. I just wonder why she suddenly stated she was widowed when we now know she wasn't?

Jude

Some leaps of faith going on here....I have found a marriage in Bromsgrove Worcestershire and there is a person missing....


Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
COX Sarah Ann Bromsgrove 6c 629
Edkins Frederick William Bromsgrove 6c 629
Hicks Mary Ann Bromsgrove 6c 629

And I can find a birth in Halifax for A Sarah Whitehouse that fits with a death in Bradford in June 1886 for A Sarah Hartley...so although stretching the imagination somewhat the missing person could be John Hartley.

And I can find Frederick W and Mary Edkins living in Dehli New York in 1900 - both born in England - right year for a birth for him (from 1881 census) of 1862...ONLY spanner is that they have been married 11 years i.e. 1889 (given emigration was 1887 that means they married there).

Short of speculating some dosh on Sarah Ann Cox's marriage certificate is there any way of further sleuthing first?

Jude

I've tried Ancestry and FreeBMD to find missing male with no luck as yet.

Maryb.

Mary thanks...

All clutching at straws anyway as none of this explains why John Hartley is never with any wife at any census that I have found him...or why Sarah Ann described herself as widowed in 1901 when I have have found him alive and kicking and stated as married in 1911 ( a marriage that fits with the 1885 one to Sarah Whitehouse)....so many mysteries and unanswered questions.

For instance, in 1911 John R Hartley states married 25 years two children both living....so the marriage is the one to Sarah Rebecca (by timing). Do the two children include Albert Nicholson or not? :-S

FMP shows this

Name: HARRIS, George Emmanuel
Registration district: Bromsgrove
County: Worcestershire
Year of registration: 1887
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 6C
Page no: 629
MarriageFinder: George Emmanuel Harris married one of the following people:

COX, Sarah Ann
HICKS, Mary Ann
EDKINS, Frederick William

any good?
Civil Registration event: Death
Print Close
Name: HARTLEY, John R
Registration district: Bradford
County: Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1926
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at death: 59
Volume no: 9B
Page no: 223

wonder if Sarah A stayed in Warwickshire?
Civil Registration event: Death

Name: HARTLEY, Sarah A
Registration district: Birmingham South
County: Warwickshire
Year of registration: 1926
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death: 65
Volume no: 6D
Page no: 10

Jan thanks for both of these. The Bromsgrove marriage saves me splashing out nearly £10 only to find it was not what I was looking for!

Yeah the death looks spot on. He was born 21 October 1866

Jude

The death for Sarah Ann looks good too - she was born in 1859. and I was fairly sure that she had come home for good. In 1891 she is with her mum and in 1901 in service as a cook in Edgbaston. I couldn't see any reason why she would return to Bradford as I am fairly sure she left soon after Albert's birth and never returned. I reckon they were never married and she only said they were to have John Richard's name on the certificate. I've not managed to spot her in 1911 though.

In 1901 she is with an Eliza Barnett (Head) and a visitor Norris T Foster. I think on FMP they are married in 1911 and she is transcribed as Eliza Norris Foster and him as something very strange Norris Foster! Whether Sarah is still with them I have not been able to see.

1911?




1911 census transcription details for: Crow Keys Jamaica Row Birmingham

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN18131 RG78PN1098 RD384 SD4 ED28 SN128


Reg. District: Birmingham Sub District: St Martin
Parish: Birmingham Enum. District: 28
Address: Crow Keys Jamaica Row Birmingham
County: Warwickshire

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
ANNIS, Elijah Henry Head Married M 37 1874 Publican Manager Birmingham Warwickshire
ANNIS, Eliza Ann Wife Married F 39 1872 Assisting In The Business Staffordshire
ANNIS, Norman Shadrock Son M 12 1899 School Birmingham Warwickshire
ANNIS, Edith Daughter F 10 1901 School Birmingham Warwickshire
ANNIS, Frederick Henry Son M 8 1903 School Birmingham Warwickshire
ANNIS, Doris Elizabeth Daughter F 5 1906 School Cradley Heath Staff
ANNIS, Hilda Gertrude Daughter F 3 1908 Cradley Heath Staff
HENCE, Richard Visitor Widower M 47 1864 Butcher Birmingham Warwickshire
HENCE, Stephen Visitor M 10 1901 School Aston Warwickshire
HARRIS, Arthur Servant Single M 22 1889 Barman Shirley Warwickshire
HEPKISS, Alice Servant Single F 27 1884 Barman Birmingham Warwickshire
PERRY, Sarah Servant Single F 17 1894 Servant Domestic Cradley Heath Staff
HARTLEY, Sarah Servant Widow F 47 1864 Servant Domestic Stourport Worcestershire

just for info the Foster's in 1911




1911 census transcription details for: 9 Priory Road Edgbaston

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN17912 RG78PN1093 RD383 SD3 ED2 SN152


Reg. District: Kings Norton Sub District: Edgbaston
Parish: Edgbaston Enum. District: 2
Address: 9 Priory Road Edgbaston
County: Worcestershire

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
FOSTER, Tildasley Norris Head Married M 56 1855 Barrister At Law Uncertain Bromsgrove Worcester
FOSTER, Eliza Norris Wife Married F 56 1855 None Birmingham
JORDAN, Marion Christina Niece Single F 32 1879 Lady Nurse Tackbrook Warwick
UPTON, Miriam Servant Widow F 45 1866 Cook Bilston Staffs