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Hi all,

I have found an Ambrose Taylor in the 1901 Census (he had died by 1911, but some of his family members are listed in that Census). He appears as Ambrose Taylor in the1891 but not in 1881 census. But in 1881 he appears (perhaps?) as Ambrose Blackham (YOB and other family members match). In 1871, 1861 and 1851 he appears (perhaps - not sure if it's the same person) as Ambrose Taylor - either as boarder or nephew to (and living with) a Wm & Mary Blackam/Blackham, in Wirksworth.

Is it possible that Ambrose Taylor took on Wm Blackham's surname when Wm died (in 1872, I think) and then reverted back to his old TAYLOR surname when Mary Blackham died (in 1885, I think).

I believe that Ambrose Taylor may be my Great G'father (his daughter Elsie, aged 4 in the1911 Census, is my maternal g'mother).

I'd be very grateful for any hints/tips/pointers/etc.

Many Thanks
SW

Buy Elsie's marriage cert, for confirmation of her father's details

And it may not be a case of 'taking on' a name..........the census would just record him as Blackham if he was stated to be the woman's son, and no surname specified

But......your posting doesn't actually say what you are looking for in relation to Ambrose................

Are you sure of your facts about Elsie?

1901
Name: Ambrose Taylor
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Taylor
Gender: Male
Where born: Derby

Civil parish: Wirksworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Millers Green
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Wirksworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 89
Piece: 3234
Folio: 56
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Ambrose Taylor 50
Mary Taylor 41
Elizabeth Taylor 20
William Taylor 17
Hubert Taylor 14
Harry Taylor 11
Florie Taylor 7
Elsie Taylor 2 **************************

What was the birthplace of the child who was 4 in 1911?

Where was she living - and with whom?

If Ambrose wasn't shown on 1911 census, what leads you to think that he was the father of the Elsie to whom you refer?

Do you have any certs?

Ambrose Taylor
England and Wales Census, 1901

birth: 1851 —Derby, Derbyshire
residence: 31 Mar 1901 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England
census: 31 Mar 1901 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England

record title: England and Wales Census, 1901
name: Ambrose Taylor
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 50
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Derby, Derbyshire
record type: Household
registration district: Belper
sub-district: Wirksworth
ecclesiastical parish: St Marys
civil parish: Wirksworth
county: Derbyshire

his father maybe?

AMBROSE TAYLOR Pedigree
Male Family
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: MARTHA DUESBURY Family
Marriage: 29 DEC 1827 All Saints, Derby, Derby, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date

Ambrose Blackham
England and Wales Census, 1881

birth: 1851 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England
residence: 1881 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England
census: 1881 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England
parents: Mary Blackham

record title: England and Wales Census, 1881
name: Ambrose Blackham
age: 30
gender: Male
birth year: 1851
birthplace: Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England
relationship to head of household: Son
marital condition: Married
profession/occupation: Tape Weaver Manuf
address: North End
census place: Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341818
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 3419 / 8
page number:

1881

Mary BLACKHAM Head W Female 72 Alderwasley, Derby, England
Ambrose BLACKHAM Son M Male 30 Wirksworth, Derby, England Tape Weaver Manuf
Mary BLACKHAM Dr In Law M Female 22 Ambergate, Derby, England
My.Eliz. BLACKHAM G Daur Female 4 m Wirksworth, Derby, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling North End
Census Place Wirksworth, Derby, England
Family History Library Film 1341818
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3419 / 8
Page Number 7

1881

Ambrose BLACKHAM Head M Male 45 Ambergate, Derby, England Lab Railway Wagon Wks
Ann BLACKHAM Wife M Female 55 Belper, Derby, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Whittn Hill
Census Place Whittington, Derby, England
Family History Library Film 1341822
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3436 / 75
Page Number 33

AMBROSE JAMES BLACKHAM Pedigree
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 21 FEB 1835 Wirksworth, Derby, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JONATHAN BLACKHAM Family
Mother: ANN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

AMBROSE BLACKHAM Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 20 SEP 1808

Christening: 17 SEP 1809 Wirksworth, Derby, England

Death: 07 NOV 1814

Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: AMBROSE BLACKHAM Family
Mother: RUTH


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Not sure there is any point in pursuing this until the OP tells us where she got the idea that Ambrose was connected to her grandmother

Thanks for the response, Flick.

Although I've been a member on GR for a while I haven't done very much so far...so please excuse any naive questions on my part.

I will buy Elsie's marriage cert - thanks for that suggestion.

My main goal is to chase down ancestors from my mother's side of the family. I started looking quite recently - I know my grandmother's maiden name was Elsie Taylor and that she had lived (and grown up) in the Wirksworth area. So that was my starting point. I came across her in the 1911 and 1901 census docs (at least I think it is her - my aunt - her daughter - has said that the names of her siblings match with what she recalls and the age and place is correct).

So then I looked for her father - Ambrose Taylor. That's when I came across the (seemingly) incongruous info concerning his surname across entries from the 1851-1901 census docs. I just became interested in if/how/why that change of surname may have happened. He was first reported to be a 'nephew' (Ambrose Taylor, in 1851 in the Blackham houeshold), then a 'boarder' with them (Ambrose Taylor in 1861), then a 'nephew' again (Ambrose Taylor in 1871), then a 'son' (Ambrose Blackham in 1881), then he was 'Head' and back to Ambrose Taylor in the census returns of 1891 and 1901.

I'd like to search further back from Ambrose, but I became a little confused about the possibilities of me chasing up the wrong person/surname. I found several Ambrose Blackhams and some Ambrose Taylors. There's also some conflict over his place of birth - reported in various census returns as Derby or Wirksworth Ouley...but that's assuming I'm looking at the same person... I guess I'll just keep on trying with it!

Thanks again for the advice.
Stephanie

Many thanks, Ann of GG and Flick.

I'm only working from census returns at the moment, and I've also looked at one or two birth/death registration docs. The 1901 and 1911 returns (Wirksworth, where my GM gre up - and the address fits exactly with where a great uncle (Elsie's brother), Stanley, lived until his death in the 1990s. Those census returns list Elsie Taylor as being 2 & 12 yo respectively. The 1901 return lists Ambrose Taylor as Head, bc1851, married to Mary. In the 1911 return Ambrose does not appear, but his wife (Mary) is 'Head' and the original daughters and yougest sone (Stanley) are still with her. All the children's names (1901 and 1911) fit with names my own aunt (Elsie's yougest daughter) recalls as being her aunts & uncles when she was a young girl/woman. I am quite confident that this Elsie is my GM and that Ambrose is therefore her father (based on Census data).

It's the issue over Ambrose's census data (i.e. his surname) that has thrown me a little. Hence my question about possibilities of a name change...which Flick has suggested may have been simply due to what was reported/recorded at the time.

Thanks for your help!

Stephanie

I think there is some confusion because in your first post you said that Elsie was aged 4 in 1911, but afterwards you say she was 12.

Kath. x

AMBROSE BLACKHAM Pedigree
Male Family

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN BLACKHAM Family
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: HARRIET STREET Family
Marriage: 01 OCT 1838 Wirksworth, Derby, England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Ambrose Blackham Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: About 1811 , Derby, England

Christening:
Death:
Burial: 23 AUG 1891 Wirksworth, Derby, England



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: John Blackham

AMBROSE BLACKHAM Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 16 APR 1834 Wirksworth, Derby, England

Death: 04 MAY 1834

Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JONATHAN BLACKHAM Family
Mother: ANN


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Thanks Kath - and I apologise to everyone - in particular to Flick and AnnofGG - for supplying this incorrect info.

Elsie Taylor (my grandmother) was 2 in 1901 and 12 in 1911 (census data)

Her father was Ambrose Taylor (from 1901 census data, bc1851)

Elsie married Edgar Staton in 1923 - I have seen the register but have yet to get hold of the marriage cert. My mother was Elsie and Edgar's oldest daughter.

Elsie's youngest brother (Stanley, 7yo in 1911 - census data), lived in the same cottage (in Wirksworth) where he and his (Taylor) family had lived until his own death, sometime in the 1990s (have yet to chase up the exact date). Stan lived there in later years with his wife and son.

I know I still have loads to do on this...I am only at the beginning...and that's before I start to chase down my WWI Grenadier Guard grandfather on my paternal side...

I'll go and get on with it...

Thanks to all,
Stephanie
:-D

Right....now that we have accurate info about Elsie's birth year, it is fairly obvious that Ambrose was her father.......

So tell us what you would like to know about Ambrose

Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Allen Mary Belper 7b 734 <<<<<<<<<<<
Jebb Isaac Belper 7b 734
Taylor Ambrose Belper 7b 734 <<<<<<<<<<
WAIN Ellen Belper 7b 734