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Stephanie
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8 Aug 2011 14:12 |
Hi all,
I have found an Ambrose Taylor in the 1901 Census (he had died by 1911, but some of his family members are listed in that Census). He appears as Ambrose Taylor in the1891 but not in 1881 census. But in 1881 he appears (perhaps?) as Ambrose Blackham (YOB and other family members match). In 1871, 1861 and 1851 he appears (perhaps - not sure if it's the same person) as Ambrose Taylor - either as boarder or nephew to (and living with) a Wm & Mary Blackam/Blackham, in Wirksworth.
Is it possible that Ambrose Taylor took on Wm Blackham's surname when Wm died (in 1872, I think) and then reverted back to his old TAYLOR surname when Mary Blackham died (in 1885, I think).
I believe that Ambrose Taylor may be my Great G'father (his daughter Elsie, aged 4 in the1911 Census, is my maternal g'mother).
I'd be very grateful for any hints/tips/pointers/etc.
Many Thanks SW
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Flick
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8 Aug 2011 14:39 |
Buy Elsie's marriage cert, for confirmation of her father's details
And it may not be a case of 'taking on' a name..........the census would just record him as Blackham if he was stated to be the woman's son, and no surname specified
But......your posting doesn't actually say what you are looking for in relation to Ambrose................
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Flick
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8 Aug 2011 14:49 |
Are you sure of your facts about Elsie?
1901 Name: Ambrose Taylor Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Taylor Gender: Male Where born: Derby Civil parish: Wirksworth Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Millers Green County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England Registration district: Belper Sub-registration district: Wirksworth ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 89 Piece: 3234 Folio: 56 Page Number: 13 Household Members: Name Age Ambrose Taylor 50 Mary Taylor 41 Elizabeth Taylor 20 William Taylor 17 Hubert Taylor 14 Harry Taylor 11 Florie Taylor 7 Elsie Taylor 2 **************************
What was the birthplace of the child who was 4 in 1911?
Where was she living - and with whom?
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Flick
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8 Aug 2011 14:56 |
If Ambrose wasn't shown on 1911 census, what leads you to think that he was the father of the Elsie to whom you refer?
Do you have any certs?
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 14:57 |
Ambrose Taylor England and Wales Census, 1901 birth: 1851 —Derby, Derbyshire residence: 31 Mar 1901 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England census: 31 Mar 1901 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England record title: England and Wales Census, 1901 name: Ambrose Taylor event: Census event date: 31 Mar 1901 gender: Male age: 50 relationship to head of household: Head birthplace: Derby, Derbyshire record type: Household registration district: Belper sub-district: Wirksworth ecclesiastical parish: St Marys civil parish: Wirksworth county: Derbyshire
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 14:59 |
his father maybe?
AMBROSE TAYLOR Pedigree Male Family : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages: Spouse: MARTHA DUESBURY Family Marriage: 29 DEC 1827 All Saints, Derby, Derby, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 15:03 |
Ambrose Blackham England and Wales Census, 1881 birth: 1851 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England residence: 1881 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England census: 1881 —Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England parents: Mary Blackham record title: England and Wales Census, 1881 name: Ambrose Blackham age: 30 gender: Male birth year: 1851 birthplace: Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England relationship to head of household: Son marital condition: Married profession/occupation: Tape Weaver Manuf address: North End census place: Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England record type: Household family history library film: 1341818 the national archives reference: RG11 piece/folio: 3419 / 8 page number:
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 15:04 |
1881
Mary BLACKHAM Head W Female 72 Alderwasley, Derby, England Ambrose BLACKHAM Son M Male 30 Wirksworth, Derby, England Tape Weaver Manuf Mary BLACKHAM Dr In Law M Female 22 Ambergate, Derby, England My.Eliz. BLACKHAM G Daur Female 4 m Wirksworth, Derby, England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling North End Census Place Wirksworth, Derby, England Family History Library Film 1341818 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3419 / 8 Page Number 7
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 15:05 |
1881
Ambrose BLACKHAM Head M Male 45 Ambergate, Derby, England Lab Railway Wagon Wks Ann BLACKHAM Wife M Female 55 Belper, Derby, England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling Whittn Hill Census Place Whittington, Derby, England Family History Library Film 1341822 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3436 / 75 Page Number 33
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 15:07 |
AMBROSE JAMES BLACKHAM Pedigree Male -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: Christening: 21 FEB 1835 Wirksworth, Derby, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: JONATHAN BLACKHAM Family Mother: ANN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 15:07 |
AMBROSE BLACKHAM Pedigree Male
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: 20 SEP 1808 Christening: 17 SEP 1809 Wirksworth, Derby, England Death: 07 NOV 1814 Burial:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: AMBROSE BLACKHAM Family Mother: RUTH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
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Flick
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8 Aug 2011 15:09 |
Not sure there is any point in pursuing this until the OP tells us where she got the idea that Ambrose was connected to her grandmother
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Stephanie
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8 Aug 2011 15:15 |
Thanks for the response, Flick.
Although I've been a member on GR for a while I haven't done very much so far...so please excuse any naive questions on my part.
I will buy Elsie's marriage cert - thanks for that suggestion.
My main goal is to chase down ancestors from my mother's side of the family. I started looking quite recently - I know my grandmother's maiden name was Elsie Taylor and that she had lived (and grown up) in the Wirksworth area. So that was my starting point. I came across her in the 1911 and 1901 census docs (at least I think it is her - my aunt - her daughter - has said that the names of her siblings match with what she recalls and the age and place is correct).
So then I looked for her father - Ambrose Taylor. That's when I came across the (seemingly) incongruous info concerning his surname across entries from the 1851-1901 census docs. I just became interested in if/how/why that change of surname may have happened. He was first reported to be a 'nephew' (Ambrose Taylor, in 1851 in the Blackham houeshold), then a 'boarder' with them (Ambrose Taylor in 1861), then a 'nephew' again (Ambrose Taylor in 1871), then a 'son' (Ambrose Blackham in 1881), then he was 'Head' and back to Ambrose Taylor in the census returns of 1891 and 1901.
I'd like to search further back from Ambrose, but I became a little confused about the possibilities of me chasing up the wrong person/surname. I found several Ambrose Blackhams and some Ambrose Taylors. There's also some conflict over his place of birth - reported in various census returns as Derby or Wirksworth Ouley...but that's assuming I'm looking at the same person... I guess I'll just keep on trying with it!
Thanks again for the advice. Stephanie
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Stephanie
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8 Aug 2011 15:31 |
Many thanks, Ann of GG and Flick.
I'm only working from census returns at the moment, and I've also looked at one or two birth/death registration docs. The 1901 and 1911 returns (Wirksworth, where my GM gre up - and the address fits exactly with where a great uncle (Elsie's brother), Stanley, lived until his death in the 1990s. Those census returns list Elsie Taylor as being 2 & 12 yo respectively. The 1901 return lists Ambrose Taylor as Head, bc1851, married to Mary. In the 1911 return Ambrose does not appear, but his wife (Mary) is 'Head' and the original daughters and yougest sone (Stanley) are still with her. All the children's names (1901 and 1911) fit with names my own aunt (Elsie's yougest daughter) recalls as being her aunts & uncles when she was a young girl/woman. I am quite confident that this Elsie is my GM and that Ambrose is therefore her father (based on Census data).
It's the issue over Ambrose's census data (i.e. his surname) that has thrown me a little. Hence my question about possibilities of a name change...which Flick has suggested may have been simply due to what was reported/recorded at the time.
Thanks for your help!
Stephanie
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KathleenBell
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8 Aug 2011 15:44 |
I think there is some confusion because in your first post you said that Elsie was aged 4 in 1911, but afterwards you say she was 12.
Kath. x
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 15:56 |
AMBROSE BLACKHAM Pedigree Male Family -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: JOHN BLACKHAM Family -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages: Spouse: HARRIET STREET Family Marriage: 01 OCT 1838 Wirksworth, Derby, England ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 15:57 |
Ambrose Blackham Pedigree Male
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: About 1811 , Derby, England Christening: Death: Burial: 23 AUG 1891 Wirksworth, Derby, England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: John Blackham
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AnnCardiff
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8 Aug 2011 15:57 |
AMBROSE BLACKHAM Pedigree Male
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: Christening: 16 APR 1834 Wirksworth, Derby, England Death: 04 MAY 1834 Burial:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: JONATHAN BLACKHAM Family Mother: ANN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
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Stephanie
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8 Aug 2011 16:14 |
Thanks Kath - and I apologise to everyone - in particular to Flick and AnnofGG - for supplying this incorrect info.
Elsie Taylor (my grandmother) was 2 in 1901 and 12 in 1911 (census data)
Her father was Ambrose Taylor (from 1901 census data, bc1851)
Elsie married Edgar Staton in 1923 - I have seen the register but have yet to get hold of the marriage cert. My mother was Elsie and Edgar's oldest daughter.
Elsie's youngest brother (Stanley, 7yo in 1911 - census data), lived in the same cottage (in Wirksworth) where he and his (Taylor) family had lived until his own death, sometime in the 1990s (have yet to chase up the exact date). Stan lived there in later years with his wife and son.
I know I still have loads to do on this...I am only at the beginning...and that's before I start to chase down my WWI Grenadier Guard grandfather on my paternal side...
I'll go and get on with it...
Thanks to all, Stephanie :-D
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Flick
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8 Aug 2011 17:12 |
Right....now that we have accurate info about Elsie's birth year, it is fairly obvious that Ambrose was her father.......
So tell us what you would like to know about Ambrose
Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Allen Mary Belper 7b 734 <<<<<<<<<<< Jebb Isaac Belper 7b 734 Taylor Ambrose Belper 7b 734 <<<<<<<<<< WAIN Ellen Belper 7b 734
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