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Dear everybody,
I am at the library so again I have little time but I want to say how much I appreciate all your help and every bit of information that you find out. I will try my best to answer as many of your questions as I can and if I can't I will look at my files at home and post again as soon as I am able, which will be in a few days.

On Margaret Janes Phillips Marriage certificate (1914 Bermondsey) her father is given as George Phillips Gas Stoker. She is aged 32 years (1882). Her witmness is E.E. Dewberry and P.L. Cooper. Her occupation is finisher of embroidery (1914). Her husband is James Miller age 36 engineers labourer father charles miller whitesmith deceased. I believe that i have found him and his family on the censuses as his father is always a whitesmith! I will get their addresses as soon as i can. They were living at 26 monarch buildings bermondsey at the time of their marriage.

I got the birth certificate for Margaret Jane Phillips in 1884 (shadwell) father george phillips tinman and Jessie Phillips nee Hood. This ties in with the census information that kind GU members have found above. However as Margarets marriage certificate states that her fathers occupation is gas stoker I am not convienced that i have got the correct birth or census information for my Margaret. But the margaret Phillips with george (gas stoker) and elizabeth (above 13th aug 20.48) was born in 1892 not 1882, so can this be the correct family? They were living at 487 cable / Gable street shadwell Middlesex.

When Margaret Jane and James miller's daughter Ellen Margaret Miller got married in 1937 her witnesses were James Miller and Grace Phillips (brother and 1/2 sister). She was living at 30 storks rd bermondsey. Jack Phillips gave her away as her father James Miller was deceased but I do not know who jack Phillips was.

Ellen margaret miller looked after her younger siblings charles and joseph (b 1923 and 1927) as her mother Margaret Jane Miller nee Phillips was 'mad' but I do not have any more information on when she died or what her illness really was i.e. was she in an insitution? I also do not know when James Miller died although it must have been after 1927 (last child was born) and 1937 when Ellen got married. Family rumour has him being run over by a tram but who knows!

I hope to continue to find out more about Margaret Jane Phillips. I am intrigued by the census information regarding Margaret born 1892 with a father named george Phillips gas stoker and if they are connected to my family. It seems strange that George's occupation fits but it definately says Margaret Jane Phillips aged 32 yr not 22 on her marriage certificate so I don't think that this could be my Margaret phillips. But any ideas would be welcome.

I think that is all I know. Thank you once again for all your help.
Helen

PHILLIPS, George Head Married M 56 1855 Gas Stoker St Nicholus Kent
PHILLIPS, Elizabeth Wife Married 30 years F 55 1856 Ramsgate Kent
PHILLIPS, Margaret Daughter Single F 19 1892 Errand Girl London Rotherhithe
PHILLIPS, Frances Daughter F 14 1897 London Rotherhithe

RG number: RG14 Piece: 1929 Reference: RG14PN1929 RG78PN68 RD24 SD3 ED16 SN112

Registration District: St Olave (Bermondsey)
Sub District: Rotherhithe
Enumeration District: 16
Parish: Bermondsey

Address: 20 Eugenia Road Rotherhithe County: London

Births Mar 1892 (>99%)
Phillips Margaret Jane St. Olave 1d 292

There is a daughter in 1911:
HOUSEHOLD PHILLIPS MARGARET F 1892 19 St Olave (Bermondsey) London

Maybe someone can post the transcription with address

39, 41 and 43 Jeffreys Road is listed as a maternity hospital on 1911 census

Looks like Helens time is up and she'll be back on Wednesday.

Hopefully we'll be able to add more info for her.

Thank you tempest. Seems that Margaret has left home........ so we need to try and see where she is.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Margaret Phillips Name: Margaret Phillips
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1884
Baptism Date: 13 Aug 1884
Father's name: George Phillips
Mother's name: Jessie Phillips
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stepney St Thomas
Borough: Tower Hamlets

Born 20th July 1884

1911 census for the family

married 38 years, 12 children to marriage, 3 had died, 9 still alive in 1911

Address: 27 Doynton Street St Pancras

Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

PHILLIPS, Jessie Head Widow F 57 1854 Aberdeen Scotland
PHILLIPS, Florence Daughter Single F 21 1890 Machinist Stepney London
PHILLIPS, James Son Single M 18 1893 Porter Drapers Clapton London
PHILLIPS, Dororthy Daughter Single F 13 1898 Bloomsbury London

I am just wondering about this????????

No father named and the address is 41 Jeffreys Road but there are loads of baptisms the same day with different names and the same address. Workhouse?? or what??

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Grace May Phillips
Name: Grace May Phillips
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1904
Baptism Date: 18 May 1904 (smudged should read 13th)
Mother's name: Maud Phillips ( NO OCCUPATION)
Parish or Poor Law Union: South Lambeth All Saints
Borough: Lambeth

Could some please look at the 1911 census for;

HOUSEHOLD PHILLIPS DORORTHY F 1898 13 St Pancras London

think she is with some siblings and mother Jessie, thank you.

Hi Helen,

I was hoping to find a marriage on Ancestry for 1 of the children with the address of Cherry Garden Street. sadly I haven't found 1.

I'm inclined to think that Margaret may have put Maud on that birth certificate as a "red herring".

Ok, on Margaret Jane's marriage certificate does she state her father deceased and an occupation for him? Also do the witnesses help at all?

Helen did you say you have the birth cert of Grace May Phillips with mother Maud? What year was she born please?

Dear Dee,
I am amazed that you are still helping me as you have spent so much time already....thank you so much. You are so fast that I am having difficulty keeping up :-)
Ok ....the 1911 census is not any help is it, which is a shame. I think that the other censuses look like my margaret Jane Phillips though.

I am so sorry I have got to go as my internet time is up. I am soooooo frustrated as it has been a brilliant few hours. Thank you Dee very much for solving the puzzle for me about Grace as I would have ordered more and more certificates!!!! I greatly appreciate everyones help and am aware that it all takes a huge amount of time and effort to do so.....thank you :-)
Hopefully I will be able to pick it up again on Wednesday at the library!
With sincere thanks Helen

1881 Scotland Census
about Grace Phillips Name: Grace Phillips
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relationship: Daughter
Father's name: George Phillips
Mother's name: Jessie Phillips
Gender: Female
Where born: Aberdeen, Abershire
Registration Number: 168/1
Registration district: St Nicholas
Civil parish: Aberdeen St Nicholas
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 7 Hendersons Cot 46 Broad Street
ED: 33
Household schedule number: 35
Line: 2
Roll: cssct1881_50
Household Members: Name Age
George Phillips 28
Jessie Phillips 27
Mary Phillips 7
Elizabeth Phillips 5
George Phillips 3
Grace Phillips 1

Is this the Phillips family??

1891 England Census
about Mogie Phillips Name: Mogie Phillips
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George Phillips
Mother's name: Jannie Phillips
Gender: Female
Where born: Shadwell, London, England

Civil parish: Ratcliff
Ecclesiastical parish: Stepney St Thomas
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Ratcliff
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 293
Folio: 39
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
George Phillips 38
Jannie Phillips 37
Elizabeth Phillips 15
George Phillips 13
Grace Phillips 12
Jessie Phillips 3
Mogie Phillips 7
Isabelle Phillips 4
Flora Phillips 1


1901 England Census
about Margaret Phillips Name: Margaret Phillips
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George Phillips
Mother's name: Jessie Phillips
Gender: Female
Where born: Shadwell, London, England

Civil parish: St Andrew Holborn Above The Bars and St George The Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St George the Martyr
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Holborn
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 54
Piece: 245
Folio: 114
Page Number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
George Phillips 49 >>> Gun smith
Jessie Phillips 47
Grace Phillips 21
Jessie Phillips 19
Margaret Phillips 16
Florence Phillips 10
James Phillips 7
Dorothy Phillips 3
Mary A Wood 70 >>> Mother in law

1911 census

Address: 10 Cherry Garden St Bermondsey S E

Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

STONE, Benjamin Head Married 13 years M 35 1876 Chimney Sweep Bermondsey London
STONE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 36 1875 Bermondsey London
STONE, Benjamin Son M 12 1899 School Bermondsey London
STONE, Elizabeth Daughter F 11 1900 School Bermondsey London
STONE, Jane Daughter F 9 1902 Bermondsey London
STONE, James Son M 7 1904 Bermondsey London
STONE, Ellen Daughter F 3 1908 Bermondsey London


and


1911 census address 10 Cherry Garden St Bermondsey S E

Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

CLARKE, Walter Alec Husband Married M 48 1863 Bucther General Hand London Bermondsey
CLARKE, Emma Jane Wife Married 22 years F 43 1868 London Bermondsey
CLARKE, Heneritta Alice Daughter Single F 19 1892 Machinist London Bermondsey
CLARKE, Laura Daughter Single F 16 1895 Messenger London Bermondsey
CLARKE, Mabel Daughter F 13 1898 School London Bermondsey
CLARKE, David Son M 11 1900 School London Bermondsey
CLARKE, Beatrice Daughter F 8 1903 London Bermondsey
CLARKE, Sarah Constance Daughter F 6 1905 London Bermondsey

Yes I know that Grace married Reg Tap (photos to prove it and my mums and others recollections oh and a marriage certificate!) I believe that Margaret had a number of sisters Mary Ann, Elizabeth, Grace, Isabella, Florence and Dorothy, so she may well have taken on another child or she may have siad that she was maud not margaret for shame....she was already pregnant with Ellen Margaret when she married james Miller, so Grace May Phillips could well be hers as well.
You don't know how much I appreciate your help. Thank you very much indeed.
Helen

Well if you know for definate that your Grace married Reginald Tapp I would say that Maud was Margaret............. OR did Margaret have a sister Maud and Margaret take Grace as her child???

Dee x

Ok after sprinting home so now i am puffing ..... birth certificate....27th December 1911 Grace May, girl mother MAUD Phillips living at 10 Cherry Garden Street Bermondsey.
Do think that Maud must be my Margaret? I know that her daughter Ellen was known in the family as Nell etc! Surely this has to be the correct certificate as how many Grace May Phillips marrying A Tap can there be?

Helen

Silly me, the DOB on the birth cert hopefully will tally with the death I found....