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Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone could help me track a NSW birth record…I have looked high and low and under a number of combinations but to no avail.

I am searching for a Clarence Roy Bryans. This is what I know of him:

1: He enlisted in the AIF in 1917 at 18 years and 6 months old, giving a place of birth of Albury, New South Wales. His next of kin is noted as Mrs Lizzie Hartley (Mother) of Culcairn, New South Wales. File note states that Clarence’s father is deceased and his mother has remarried.

2: In 1926 He then marries in Northcote, Victoria at the age of 28. His parents are given as James Bryans, Quarryman and Elizabeth Hartley.

3: Clarence then passes away in 1952 at the age of 54. His parents are now given as James Hartley and Elizabeth Hartley, maiden name unknown.

So, from all the above I assume that he was born in 1898 but I cannot find any record of birth using any of the combinations of Hartley, Bryans or his names.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I know what happened to him after he married etc it is just his beginning that I am stuck on!

Do you think he changed his name?

the only child I can find with father James Hartley
there are no other children registered with father James Hartley.

do you know when James Hartley died?

NSW BDM
Reg no 3560/1894 Hartley Harold R
father James. mother Susie. district Albury

Hi Grace,

No idea what I'm doing,but I looked for a Bryans/Hartley marriage and found:
Marriages
8651/1902 HARTLEY GEORGE BRYANS MARGARET ALBURY

The only matching nirth(er,birth!!!) I could find was:
Births

Registration Number Last Name Given Name(s) Father's Given Name(s) Mother's Given Name(s) District
29477/1898 BRYANS ROY MARGARET BURWOOD

Not spot on,but close enough to make you wonder.....

Maureen

Thanks both, firstly to Moonbi, I know nothing about James Hartley other than at the time of Claren's marriage he is shown as alive and has the employement of a Quarryman.

Thanks Maureen, not sure about that one unless Elizabeth was using a differing name...as I don't know her maiden name I am stuck there also!
I agree it is close though

There are only 2 Hartley's in the Culcairn cemetery
George age 47 died 07/0709/ 1921
and Lorna Ivy age 4, died 28/12/1922

section Meth/Presb; Row B plot 55 and plot 55a

The weird thing also is that follwoing up on Maureen's post there was a Margaret Bryans who married a George Hartley...I can't imagine that both of them would have changed their names to James & Elizabeth...

Thanks for the cemetery reference...this one is a bit tricky to solve an noone to ask!

I dont know how these fact fit but......

Birth
Elizabeth Bryan 1877 dau of Thomas and Mary
Albury District

Birth
Elizabeth Hartley
b 1871 Dau of John and Mary assuming died as a second
Elizabeth Hartley
b 1880 dau of John and Mary

Birth Elizabeth M Hartley
dau of George and Margaret

Marriage of JAmes Hartley to Susie Alexander
rec 1693/1893 Albury district

Death of JAmes HArtley whose father is John and mother is Alice
rec 16805/1960 Albury district

I dont know how these fact fit but......

Birth
Elizabeth Bryan 1877 dau of Thomas and Mary
Albury District

Birth
Elizabeth Hartley
b 1871 Dau of John and Mary assuming died as a second
Elizabeth Hartley
b 1880 dau of John and Mary

Birth Elizabeth M Hartley
dau of George and Margaret
rec 9639/1903 Albury district

Marriage of JAmes Hartley to Susie Alexander
rec 1693/1893 Albury district

Death of JAmes HArtley whose father is John and mother is Alice
rec 16805/1960 Albury district

DEATH
18582/1913 BRYANS JAMES [father] JAMES [mother] ELLEN MOREE

Thank you all, so no James Hartley marrying an Elizabeth only a Susie ...ohhh this one is driving me nuts..can anyone see any other birth for Clarence other than the one suggested by Maureen.

Thanks Cherilyn but that can't be him as he was alive when Clarence was married in 1926. Thank you though...

It is a bit hard to follow these Bryans/Hartley through and confirm exactly who James and Elizabeth are when I can't even locate Clarence! :-S

I believe from what you posted that it would be Mr Hartley was alive in 1926, not Clarence's father James Byrans (IF that was his surname, and not his mother's maiden name).

Elizabeth is shown as remarried to a Mr Hartley by 1917, which would mean that Mr Bryans, assuming as I say that there was one, died sometime after about 1899 (when Clarence was born) and before 1917 (when he enlisted).

So 1913 death fits???

Ahh yes, sorry I misread what you posted previously, lol see what happens when I leave my specs at home, I always miss something!

That could fit...but why why no record of Clarence's birth then, it seems a bot odd that I can't find him anywhere!

He could have been adopted... (sorry!)

:-D

Cheers Cherilyn, he could have indeed..I suppose I'll not know I guess! How frustrating it is to get these brick walls in a fairly 'recent' anscestor!

Never mind, You never know when something new will turn up! in the meantime I'll order the death certificate of James Bryans and see how we go from there!

just thinking.

if Margaret Bryans had a son Roy in Burwood 1898

just maybe, she was an unmarried mother, and the child was raised by a relative.
she would have gone "away" to have the baby ?

a big IF and purely speculation

if Margaret Bryans had her baby Roy1898 ( no father named on the record) when she was a single girl.

she later married George Hartley in 1902

BUT her baby was raised by James and Elizabeth Hartley ???

I wonder if James and George were brothers

Good angle moonbi, worth pursuing!

I'll see what I can nut out about George & James!

or more to the point

I wonder if Elizabeth and Margaret were sisters.

thinking along these lines because something like this happened in my family only 2 generations ago too

It is quite possible, not sure why it never occurred to me...lol think I must be looking at the forest and not seeing the tree.

I'll have a look now and check it out, thanks for your ideas!

:-)

no worries have fun !

Grace, do you live in the Albury area.?
if so we could meet for coffee