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Christine - dd you actually click on his name to send him a PM?
(we've exchanged messages off board)

HI Rowland,
My husband is John Michael Speller.
His grandfather was Henry Speller, married to Caroline Hughes.
John's Dad was Albert Arthur Speller, who had a brother Frederick (born 1905), whom John remembers from childhood.
I do hope that this isn't another dead end for you.
Seems more than coincidence though.
Please contact us, if you think we're related..
Sincerely Christine Speller ( nee Clayton )
Ps.. Henry's great grandfather was Frederick..

I am related to the Paxtons of the 1871 census. George and Mary were my grandmother's parents. She was not born at the time. I've had trouble finding birth, death or marriage for George Paxton and birth or marriage for Mary. On most of the birth certificates for her children she had her maiden name as Watts, but on one it had Speller! I'd seen this census return before and wondered what the connection might have been between the two families, if any. The only document that clearly states Mary's birthplace says it was Tingewick, Bucks.

I dont know the reason why a man would take his wifes name but I have seen this before, many times

It seems Richard Fred just disapears after the baptism that I posted, no marriage or death

This shows his parents and siblings


1851 England Census
about Jas Eardley
Name: Jas Eardley
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah E Eardley
Mother's name: Anne Woollard
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Holywell
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 33
Piece: 1533
Folio: 64
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Jas Eardley 45 <<Cotton machinist on the baptism he is a Tailor
Sarah E Eardley 50
Thos Eardley 16
Eliza Eardley 13
Elizah Eardley 9
Anne Woollard 42
Sarah Vaesairy 33
Joseph Vaesairy 14
Henry Woollard 10
Elizth Cole 35
Edward Hopkins 24
Jno Pitman 65
David Thomas 27
Eliz Thomas 33

Ginny, This seems like a good answer. Frederick gives his birthplace as Hackney in the only census result that we have and this seems to closely match.

Why would a man take his wife's surname back in the 1800s. What are the likely reasons why this might take place?

Im starting to wonder if 'Fred' took Emily' name and this is his birth?

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Richard Frederick Eardley
Name: Richard Frederick Eardley
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1833
Baptism Date: 1 Sep 1833
Father's name: James Eardley
Mother's name: Sarah Elizabeth Eardley
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George the Martyr
Borough: Southwark

Hi Ginny,

I think that the record that you have found for Emily Jane Speller in 1911 is generally correct. My dad says that he was always told that his Frederick's wife was a dressmaker to the Queen. This sounds far fetched but it does link in with the census records that show Emily as a Fur Liner and Frederick as a Furrier. Then in later census records she is shown as a Silk Hand or Tailor.

I had another thought. Eardley is a common surname so I thought that maybe Frederick's mother might have been an Eardley or that Frederick was an Eardley and then changed his name to Speller. But alas I can find no evidence to support these ideas.

The other thing that I find very odd about all of this is that the Speller surname is historically very peculiar to one part of the country - the southern part of Essex including Billericay, Brentwood, Southend etc. It is therefore very strange that Emily is consistently listed as coming from this area and Frederick is not listed as being so.

Also I have not found one census result for Emily where Billericay is spelt correctly. This might suggest she was not brought up there?

More sleepless nights ahead me thinks !

Hi Ginny,

I think that the record that you have found for Emily Jane Speller in 1911 is generally correct. My dad says that he was always told that his Frederick's wife was a dressmaker to the Queen. This sounds far fetched but it does link in with the census records that show Emily as a Fur Liner and Frederick as a Furrier. Then in later census records she is shown as a Silk Hand or Tailor.

I had another thought. Eardley is a common surname so I thought that maybe Frederick's mother might have been an Eardley or that Frederick was an Eardley and then changed his name to Speller. But alas I can find no evidence to support these ideas.

The other thing that I find very odd about all of this is that the Speller surname is historically very peculiar to one part of the country - the southern part of Essex including Billericay, Brentwood, Southend etc. It is therefore very strange that Emily is consistently listed as coming from this area and Frederick is not listed as being so.

Also I have not found one census result for Emily where Billericay is spelt correctly. This might suggest she was not brought up there?

More sleepless nights ahead me thinks !

And this looks like her with the name switched the other way

1851 England Census
about Jane E Speller
Name: Jane E Speller
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Visitor
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Great Burstead, Essex, England

Civil parish: Stock
County/Island: Essex
Country: England


Registration district: Chelmsford
Sub-registration district: Ingatestone
ED, institution, or vessel: 7d
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 4
Piece: 1775
Folio: 130
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
George Collins 36
Lydia Collins 28
James Collins 8
Emma Collins 1
Ellen Collins 9 MO
Jane E Speller 9

This bloke is a nightmare! Is this Emily in 1911?

SPELLER, Emily Jane Head Widow F 68 1843 Silk Hand Billbrickie Essex VIEW

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1831 Reference:
RG14PN1831 RG78PN65 RD23 SD5 ED13 SN76

Registration District:
Southwark Sub District:
Newington South Enumeration District:
13 Parish:
St Mary Newington

Address:
30 Bagshot St Walworth County:
London


This is very odd. When I searched for Emily Jane with no surname entered, this came up!


Births Dec 1841
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speller Emily Jane Billericay 12 6


And then this


1891 England Census
about Emily J Speller
Name: Emily J Speller
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Frederick Speller
Gender: Female
Where born: Bellericay, Essex, England <<<<<<<<<<

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chrysostom
Town: Peckham
County/Island: London
Country: England


Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 479
Folio: 93
Page Number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick Speller 60
Emily J Speller 49
Thomas Speller 8

Ginny,

Thanks for your continued help on this. The marriage record that you have is definitely the right one. My grandfather always said that his dad Henry was married to a Caroline Hughes. The only thing incorrect about the marriage record is that Frederick is a Furrier and not a Farrier. But this could be simply a transcription error.

The fact that the Frederick Speller is listed as being deceased on Henry's marriage cert makes sense since Frederick Eardly Speller died in 1893:

Name Frederick Eardley Speller
Year of Registration 1893
Quarter of Registration Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District Camberwell
Registration County London
Age at Death: 62
Volume Number 1D
Volume Page 591

mmmm... solving this mystery is causing me sleepless nights lol. You say that George keeps popping up - where is this?

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Henry Speller <<<Groom?
Name: Henry Speller
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Spouse Name: Caroline Hughes
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 31 Jul 1898
Parish: St Jude, Peckham
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Frederick Speller Deceased....Farrier
Spouse Father Name: Robert Hughes Deceased...Porter

Something is not adding up with Henry' father Fred. What keeps popping up is George Speller......hmmmm

Hi Maddie,

Thanks for all your much appreciated help.

Charles must definitely be the son of Frederick Eardly Speller then. It matches the age of Charles Speller found in the 1871 census when Charles is shown as being 8 and living with his mother Emily and brothers as visitors with the Paxton family.

This raises several questions for me. Eardly seems like an unusual name so where does it originate from? Why does Frederick not appear as being born in 1831 in earlier census data? Could he have been in the army like his son Henry? Could this explain it? Where next? :-P

hope this is not a spanner in the works but he be connected to the frederick eardley death you found
1911

SPELLER, Charles Eardly Head Married
18 years M 47 1864 Gas Meter Maker Holborn London Resident VIEW
SPELLER, Elizabeth Wife Married F 58 1853 Elton Aberdeenshire Resident VIEW
SPELLER, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 23 1888 Compositor Newburgh Aberdeenshire VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
7358 Reference:
RG14PN7358 RG78PN357 RD132 SD5 ED8 SN215

Registration District:
Edmonton Sub District:
Edmonton Enumeration District:
8 Parish:
Edmonton

Address:
68 Fairfield Road Edmonton County:
Middlesex

here for info

1871
PAXTON, George Head M 40 1831 Middlesex VIEW
PAXTON, Mary Wife F 31 1840 Buckinghamshire VIEW
PAXTON, Emily Daughter F 8 1863 Middlesex VIEW
PAXTON, Adelaide Daughter F 4 1867 Middlesex VIEW
PAXTON, James Son M 2 1869 Middlesex VIEW
SPELLER, Emily Visitor F 29 1842 Middlesex VIEW
SPELLER, Charles Visitor M 8 1863 Middlesex VIEW
SPELLER, Arthur Visitor M 6 1865 Middlesex VIEW
SPELLER, Henry Visitor M 1 1870 Middlesex VIEW
RG number:
RG10 Piece:
729 Folio:
13 Page:
25

Registration District:
Camberwell Sub District:
Enumeration District:
20 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
St Giles Camberwell Municipal Borough:
Address:
Thornhill Square, St Giles Camberwell County:
London, Surrey

Okay, my Father is David Frank Speller. He was born in Bromley in 1941. His Father was Frank Victor Speller born in 1915 and was the youngest in his family. His father was Henry Speller born c1870 and married to Caroline Hughes. I have found them listed in the 1911 census.

My father David Frank Speller tells me he used to visit his grandfather Henry who was from the Peckham/Camberwell area. Henry had been a soldier and fought with Lord Roberts - that was what my family have told me.

Frank Victor Speller (my grandad) always said that his own grandfather was a Furrier. This matches the census record for 1891 which shows Frederick Speller (furrier) (born 1831) married to Emily Speller living with their youngest son Thomas. When I checked the 1871 census I found Emily Speller with her sons lodging with the Paxton family - her sons at the time are Charles Speller (b1863), Arthur Speller (b1865) and Henry Speller (b1870).

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Emily Jane Speller
Name: Emily Jane Speller
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1841
Registration district: Billericay
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 12
Page: 6 (click to see others on page)

Is this Emily's birth?

OK lets start again. Who were Freds children, how have you got back to him?

Hi folks I don't think that it is the same

Frederick Speller as married to Jane Mew. Even though it is the same area. When I have serached the census records I can see that there is a Frederick Speller (born circa 1840) married to a Jane Speller. But at the same time there is a Frederick Speller shown as being married to a Mary Speller. It is the Mary Speller that I know is correct. In the 1871 census Mary is shown as living with the Paxton family in London with her children.

I really continue to be a bit stuck.

Hi guys, thanks for all the great responses. Is it normal for a person's age to be recorded up to 8 years incorrectly as this now suggests? Why would this be? The census result posted by Maddie for 1891 is definitely the one for my great-grandfather which infers an DOB of 1831 - the same as the death certificate.

Can we be reasonably certain that this is the same Frederick Speller as suggested by Ginnie and Porkie Pie? Is there any way that I can check this?

Thanks for all of your great help!