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Have found the marriage of Mary Ann Goldthorp to James Simmons in 1846 and she says her father was John Goldthorp a Wine Porter.

Troulbe is I don't know when Jonathon/ John died if his wife married again in 1840 and I don't even know where this Jonathon was born.

Oh thanks Londonbelle.

This is the burial that you found for Jonathan Goldthorp in 1852 .....but looks as if a child as age is only 13 months

Name: Jonathan Goldthorp
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1852
Burial Date: 4 Feb 1852
Age: 13 Months
Abode: Workhouse
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St Peter
Borough: Southwark
County: Surrey

Here is where I have the name Jane Gregory from.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Stephen Allen
Name: Stephen Allen
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Spouse Name: Jane Goldthorp Widow
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 19 Apr 1840
Parish: St Mary at Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: James Allen Widower
Spouse Father Name: John Gregory*********

So if I have the right family Francis father must have died before 1840?

Here is another puzzle.

If Francis Goldthorp was married in 1849 and said his father was deceased then, but I have found a death for Jonathon Goldthorp in Newington in 1852 which would fit the marriage of Susan Goldthorp in 1853 on her marriage to John Tester jn.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Jonathan Goldthorp
Name: Jonathan Goldthorp
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1852
Registration district: Newington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 158

Wisechild thats what I thought at first. You can see how I got so confused can't you??

Right just looked at Francis Goldthorp marraige to Ann Miller in 1849 and the witnesses were Charles Jones( who I think his mother married) and Susan Goldthorp who I think maybe his sister but can't be sure.



Glitter found a marriage for Susan Goldthorp to a Tester in 1853.

This maraige says that her father was Jonathon Goldthorp dec'd Wine Merchant.

In 1861 he is shown as son in law of the head of household. This used to mean stepson.
Did his mother re marry to a Thomas Barnes??

Back now after oh had knocked all the eletric out and messed everything up!

As to the wedding of Jonathon and Jane Jones they are both widower and widow on their marriage lines so I must have come to the conclusion that her maiden name was Gregory somewhere else. I can't quite make out the witnesses to their wedding. Thos Porter, Maria ?????? and Mary Ann Carr????

Thanks Mike I think maybe Jane Jones was a witness on a wedding too.

Shall have a look after lunch now.

Thanks all for the moment.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Jonathan Goldthorp
Name: Jonathan Goldthorp
Spouse Name: Jane Jones
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 25 Sep 1814
Parish: St Mary, Newington
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark

Interestingly, the 1841 census also has children named Jones.

Where did you get Gregory from ?

Yes Maureen thats them on the 1851 thankyou.

1841 England Census about Francis Goldthorp
Name: Francis Goldthorp
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

View image

Registration district: St Mary Newington
Sub-registration district: Trinity
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1065
Book: 8
Folio: 15
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Stephen Allen 55
Jane Allen 45
Francis Goldthorp 16
Mary Goldthorp 15
Mary Connick 27
Charles Jones 8
George Jones 6
Louisa Connick 1

Thanks Glitter I shall take a look at the Goldthern and yes I think Susan was a witness.

Big difference between being born 1824 and 1831

How can you be sure it's the same person ?



There is also this marriage to consider...



JONATHAN GOLDTHORP--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: JANE JONES
Marriage: 25 SEP 1814 Saint Mary, Newington, Surrey, England

??

Name: Susan Goldthorp
Spouse Name: John Tester Jr
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 10 Dec 1853
Parish: St Mary at Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Jonathan Goldthorp
Spouse Father Name: John Tester

Think this may be him and his mother remarried?????

1841 England Census
about Jane Allen
Name: Jane Allen
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Gender: Female

Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: St Mary Newington
Sub-registration district: Trinity
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1065
Book: 8
Folio: 15
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Stephen Allen 55
Jane Allen 45
Francis Goldthorp 16 ********
Mary Goldthorp 15 **********
Mary Connick 27
Charles Jones 8
George Jones 6
Louisa Connick 1

Who is Susan Goldthorp the witness on the marriage cert ?

Yes Mike thats the one I have. Jonathon and Jane Gregory but I can't get past these two.