Find Ancestors

Although I have been a member of GR for some time I do not think I have used it to its full potential. This is an ongoing learning process! I did - as advised - send Anthony a private message and hope I can help a little with his research.
The information re Williams army history come from the Australian military records. They were very prompt and helpful in sending these to me and made fascinating reading particularly re the Gallipoli connection.
Williams life seems to have been an interesting one on several levels. Like - I suspect - many fam hist enthusiasts the social history side interests me more than the quest for dates!

I'm glad to see I have discovered what you already knew Liz ........... ;)

I saw your post in Anthony's other thread ... did you take the advice there and send him a private message ?

if Anthony had managed to check that thread a while ago he could have got all this info from you already ...

as you can see from this thread and the fact that he has had two threads about the same thing , Anthony is not the best at keeping up with his threads, I would try to contact him privately ( click on his name ) and you may have better luck sharing info that way

that possible Flagg birth, that was just a guess based on the fact that Ethel's first marriage seems to have been shortlived ... but if William was in the military then likely he and Ethel did not get together until after the war ?

All the most recent information matches my own research and appears correct. I do have a marriage certificate for John and Lena Churchill Coleman. I also have a death certificate for Lena.
William did not go to America but emigrated to Australia just before the outbreak of WW1. He joined the Anzacs and was taken seriously ill on the way to Gallipoli. He was taken off the boat to a hosital ship and was unable to return to service. He returned to Yeovil and was living with my grandmother and her sister Kate. He married Ethel Flagg and moved to Stockton on Tees area ? Billingham where I believe he worked in a munitions factory now ICI. Deaths etc as per your research but not sure of Ethels death.
Your information re possible Flagg births is new to me and very interesting as I had been unable to find any offspring from either marriage in my research.
Liz

about this birth

Births Dec 1887
Coleman William Ewart J Shaftesbury 5a 223

I believe this is the marriage of that person

Marriages Mar 1923
COLEMAN William E J C ( Harwood or Flagg ) Stockton 10a 164
FLAGG Ethel M ( Coleman ) Stockton 10a 164
HARWOOD Ethel M ( Coleman ) Stockton 10a 164

( only one other William E J Coleman was born in the late 1800s, 1894 Camberwell, and he married 1916 Camberwell )


note that the name on the marriage is

William E J -C- Coleman

which is a perfect match for William Ewart J -CHURCHILL- Coleman


here is the death for that person

Deaths Mar 1943
COLEMAN William E J 55 Durham S.E. 10a 73

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-IF- that person is the son of

John Churchill-Coleman
and
Lena Arnold

then it seems he married and died in Durham and so if he did leave England he returned


Anthony do you see what I am saying here ?

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you say : 'However, I hopefully have some detail on William Churchill born in John's first marriage to Lena Arnold.'

I do not understand ... if you have some detail what is it ? or are you saying you are looking for it, or that we have found it here ?

it just looks to me like the person whose details I have put above ... birth marriage death ... is almost certainly your William that you are looking for information about

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the Only Way you can find this out is to Get That Birth Certificate to see whether the parents are John Churchill-Coleman and Lena Arnold

... and then if so ...

get the marriage certificate to confirm it is the same person

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this is the first marriage of the wife of William E J C Coleman

Marriages Mar 1916
Flagg Ethel M Harwood Yeovil 5c 747
Harwood Percy J Flagg Yeovil 5c 747

so any children she had with William would have mother's name Flagg ... there are no births ...

... and no births to first marriage of Ethel ... there must have been a divorce as Percy J Harwood aged 47 ( born 1893 ) died in Yeovil in 1940


Ethel May Flagg born 1892 Yeovil ... possibly Ethel M Coleman died 1956 Hampshire ?

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.................. oh look ............... here is the proof of all this

the DIVORCE of Ethel May Flagg Harwood from her first husband
naming WILLIAM EWART JOHN CHURCHILL as the co-respondent

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-3116271&j=1

Divorce Court File: 7041.
Appellant: Percy John Harwood.
Respondent: Ethel May Harwood.
Co-respondent: ........................... William Ewart John CHURCHILL.
Type: Husband's petition for divorce
1921

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he was born William Ewart J COLEMAN in 1887
he was named in the divorce as William Ewart John CHURCHILL
he married as William E J -C- Coleman
he died as William E J Coleman
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Anthony ... this is the answer, this is your William Churchill-Coleman, born in 1887 in Dorset, married in 1923 in Durham, died in 1943 in Durham

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one other thing ... I might suspect this is a child of Ethel May Flagg Harwood

Births Sep 1917
Flagg Clarance Flagg Yeovil 5c 492
Deaths Dec 1917
Flagg Clarence 0 Yeovil 5c 453

born to Ethel possibly while Percy was away in WWI, possibly a child of William Ewart John Churchill-Coleman


there is one other Flagg-Flagg birth

Births Dec 1919
Flagg Leonard P Flagg Bristol 6a 33

and I can find no further trace of that person

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by the way this is William's wife's birth

Births Dec 1892
Flagg Ethel May Yeovil 5c 403

and a genesreunited member has her in their tree

Ethel Flagg 1893 Mudford, Somerset, Yeovil, England

you have also simply never replied to the question of whether you are in contact with the person who has in their tree

William Churchill-Coleman 1889 Yeovil, Somerset, England

Dear Chrissie X.
You are right on pointing out all the Churchill-Coleman's born to John & Daisy
Churchill-Coleman circa 19/20th centuary.However, I hopefully have some detail on William Churchill born in John's first marriage to Lena Arnold.
Has I have said previously I have only come across him recently in my researches so what I know is virtually nothing other than what I have been told.
Thank you and others for all their efforts.
I remain
Anthony Churchill-Coleman :-)

Chrissie X,
I am sorry that I may have been a pain!

will try and make sure that I will reply this way in future
Anthony

and same here, I have one more time asked Anthony to put his replies in the thread

Anthony you seem to pay no attention to anything

the place was HENDFORD, have you read what is above in this thread ?

also the half-brother of one's father is NOT one's step-uncle ...

I do not understand the question below ... as I said the only way to know whether a birth is the right person is to get the birth certificate ... and the only birth I see that fits is this one

Births Dec 1887
Coleman William Ewart J Shaftesbury 5a 223

but that is just a guess

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Dear chrissie x,
Going various messages on the Churchill-Coleman side.
The only thing that is not clear to me is the birth of William circa 1886 to
John and Lena at Handford/Hindford he would have been my step-uncle had I known him all the other details are correct.

Anthony, I see you know how to post onto here so I am not sure why you sent me a PM. Please put all replies onto here.

'A long time replying but in answer to your question I believe he was born in
Handford or Hindford.I know it is not clear I only wish I had more details.'

Anthony I have lost count of how many times I have asked that you stop sending me private messages about this matter, I am simply not paying any attention to any messages you send now, if you want to add information to the thread you know how to do it

however note that the son of your grandfather and your grandfather's first wife is -not- your father's stepbrother he is your father's -half- brother since they had the same father

I'm sorry but I am just too annoyed by having wasted my time on a duplicate search that I'm done, maybe somebody else will want to consult your other thread and carry on

I understand that it is not always easy to figure out these boards but when you saw people searching for information that was in your other thread, when people ask questions over and over and there are no answers, it just seems obvious to me that it is not fair

I am afraid one despairs

Anthony there is no such place as Hindford/Handford Somerset


you keep refusing to tell us what 'my step-uncle' means

was he your father's step-brother, your mother's step-brother ... was he the child of your grandfather's second wife, your grandmother's second husband ... would it not be easy to say that ?

where he was baptised is not necessarily where he was born

his name when he was baptised was not necessarily his name when his birth was registered

presumably this information comes from the baptism certificate

'The only jnformation I have .He was born at Handford to John Churchill and his wife Lena nee Arnold'

this is the marriage of that couple

Marriages Dec 1886
Arnold Lena Yeovil 5c 761
CHURCHILL-COLEMAN John Yeovil 5c 761
COLEMAN John Churchill Yeovil 5c 761

and since William shows in all censuses as being born in Gillingham Kent this has to be his birth

Births Dec 1887
Coleman William Ewart J Shaftesbury 5a 223

and you need to get moving and order that birth certificate to find out


now here's a thing, I just did a google search for

hindford somerset

to make very sure there is no such place and what do I find ?

you had a whole thread about this in March of this year

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/ancestors/thread/1262840

and now I am extremely annoyed that we have wasted our time doing all over the things that people had done in that thread already

that thread points out that in the census the family was living in the ecclesiastical parish of HENDFORD something we seem to have missed here

and the full marriage record for John and Lena shows him living in the parish of Gillingham and her living in the parish of Hendford ... you knew this already but you keep saying HINDFORD/HANDFORD

and in that thread people were just as annoyed about you simply not giving the information you were asked for as I have been here


and in fact someone else has posted in that other thread of yours saying

Hi
William Churchill Coleman was the son of my grandmothers sister Lena Arnold. My grandmother was Lily Maud Arnold and was a well known nurse/midwife in Yeovil. When his father remarried I believe he lived with the Arnold family.
Liz

( I am trying to do a tree search to see whether that is the member who has 'Willie' in her tree that I mentioned earlier but the tree search function is broken at the moment )

did that member ever contact you, did you ever contact her ?

this thread has obviously been a total waste of time

My thanks to all that have helped.
I am still researching my step -uncle the only record I have of him
is his baptismal record @ Hindford/Handford,Somerset 3/8/1889.
As it is only a copy it is a bit hazy.
Tony

hi Anthony, sorry, I'm not going to respond to any more private messages

you know how to put replies in the thread here, where everybody trying to help can see them and so I or we don't have to shuttle back and forth to my inbox to find what you are talking about so please do that

please use the ADD YOUR REPLY box at the bottom of this thread, don't click on my name or on 'send message' to send me private messags, thanks

just to mention again there is no point in saying all over again 'William was a step uncle of mine' and not explaining the relationship, knowing what it was is important for knowing his identity which can be important when searching for him

and I will ask again whether you are in touch with the member of genesreunited who has Willie in their family tree at this site

And back to spelling his name properly, at least that helps


His age on census records seems to be perfectly consistent, making him born April 1887 to March 1888

I wonder where Anthony's given dob of 1886 came from

it would certainly just be nice to identify his birth correctly since that would provide his name

this is the one that matches the age

Births Dec 1887
Coleman William Ewart J Shaftesbury 5a 223

and that registration district covers Gillingham where the other person has Willie in their tree as being born and where he shows in 1901 and 1911 as being born ...


I wonder whether Anthony will return to the thread

William was still with the Arnolds in 1911:

ARNOLD, Ernest Head Single M 31 1880 Tailor Cutter Yeovil Somerset
ARNOLD, Fanny Mother Widow F 71 1840 Bath Somerset
ARNOLD, Herbert Brother Single M 51 1860 Yeovil Somerset
COLEMAN, William Nephew Single M 23 1888 Railway Engine Stoker Gillingham Dorset
GARLAND, Alice Servant Single F 41 1870 Stoke Somerset
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RG number: RG14 Piece: 14415 Reference: RG14PN14415 RG78PN870 RD309 SD4 ED14 SN29

Registration District: Yeovil
Sub District: Yeovil
Enumeration District: 14
Parish: Yeovil

Address: 82 Sherborne Road Yeovil County: Somersetshire

Name: W C COLMAN
Date of departure: 10 March 1908
Port of departure: Liverpool
Destination port: Boston
Destination country: USA
Date of Birth:
Age: Adult
Marital Status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Labourer
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Ship: IVERNIA
Official Number: 110643
Master's name: S M Benison
Steamship Line: Cunard
Where bound: Boston, USA
Square feet: 19098
Registered tonnage: 9057
Passengers on voyage: 716

EDIT: On the Boston arrival record his name is William Charles Colman, age 37, and he's a granite cutter. In the column for NOK in England it says Fr W Colman. His onward destination was Quincy and his last residence in England looks like St Breward.

Willie C in 1901 looks excellent


how about

COLMAN W C Adult M 1908 Liverpool USA Boston

?

1901 for John:

HALL, Edwd Philip Head Married M 27 1874 Baker Confectioner Wimborne Dorsetshire
HALL, Florence Annie Wife Married F 30 1871 Bournemouth Hampshire
HALL, Stanley Philip Son M 1 1900 Salisbury Wiltshire
COLEMAN, John Churchill Boarder Widower M 37 1864 Journalist Abbotsbury Dorsetshire
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Registration District: Alderbury
Civil Parish: Salisbury St Martin

Address: 53, St Ann Street, Salisbury St Martin County: Wiltshire

William in 1901?

ARNOLD, Albert Head Married M 63 1838 Carpenter & Joiner Yeovil Somersetshire
ARNOLD, Fannie Wife Married F 61 1840 Yeovil Somersetshire
ARNOLD, Herbert Son Single M 41 1860 Feebleminded From Birth Winborne Dorsetshire
ARNOLD, Catherine Daughter Single F 32 1869 Laundress Winborne Dorsetshire
ARNOLD, Ernest Son Single M 21 1880 Tailor Yeovil Somersetshire
>>COLMAN, Willie C Grand Son Single M 13 1888 Gillingham Dorsetshire
GAYLARD, Alice Servant Single F 33 1868 General Servant Domestic Stoke Sub Hamdon Somersetshire
HORWOOD, Herbert Boarder Single M 25 1876 Glove Cutter Yeovil Somersetshire
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Registration District: Yeovil
Civil Parish: Yeovil

Address: 82, Sherborne Road, Yeovil County: Somersetshire

1891:
COLMAN, John C Head Married M 27 1864 Newspaper Canvasser Abbotsbury Dorsetshire
COLMAN, Lena C Wife Married F 27 1864 Glove Machinist Yeovil Somersetshire
COLMAN, William J C Son M 3 1888 Gillingham Dorsetshire
COLMAN, Mary Mother Widow F 66 1825 Chilfrome Dorsetshire
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Registration District: Yeovil
Civil Parish: Yeovil
Municipal Borough: Yeovil

Address: 8, Peter Street, Yeovil County: Somersetshire

Passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960

Name: William COLEMAN
Date of departure: 15 July 1922
Port of departure: Liverpool
Destination port: New York
Destination country: USA
Date of Birth: 1888 (calculated from age)
Age: 34
Marital Status: Married
Sex: Male
Occupation: Miner
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The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Elizabeth Ann COLEMAN
Leslie COLEMAN
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Ship: CELTIC
Official Number: 113476
Master's name: J Roberts
Steamship Line: White Star Line
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet: 8615
Registered tonnage: 21026
Passengers on voyage: 329
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Name: William COLEMAN
Date of departure: 1 May 1926
Port of departure: Southampton
Destination port: New York
Destination country: USA
Date of Birth: 1883 (calculated from age)
Age: 43
Marital Status: Married
Sex: Male
Occupation: Compositor
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The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Mabel COLEMAN
Mary COLEMAN
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Ship: BERENGARIA
Official Number: 144301
Master's name: E G Diggle
Steamship Line: Cunard
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet:
Registered tonnage: 21349
Passengers on voyage: 688
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Name: William COLEMAN
Date of departure: 16 July 1929
Port of departure: Southampton
Destination port: New York
Destination country: USA
Date of Birth: 1886 (calculated from age)
Age: 43
Marital Status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Merchant
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The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Mary COLEMAN
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Ship: MAURETANIA
Official Number: 124093
Master's name: S G S Mcneil
Steamship Line: Cunard
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Name: William COLEMAN
Date of departure: 15 April 1932
Port of departure: Liverpool
Destination port: Boston
Destination country: USA

Date of Birth: 1885 (calculated from age)
Age: 47
Marital Status: Married
Sex: Male
Occupation: Engineer
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The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Ellen COLEMAN
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Ship: SCYTHIA
Official Number: 142730
Master's name: B B Oram
Steamship Line: Cunard
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet: 5760
Registered tonnage: 11926
Passengers on voyage: 128