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Thank you Vera and Chrissie I came back yesterday and found the addered info and have spent a few hrs today going through it, when i get it sorted i will let you know the outcome .....ur stars xxxx

Chrissiex - no worries.

Incidentally, if you ever get tired of "the 'Walking Madonna' at Salisbury Cathedral", you could always try "deep sea diver Walker at Winchester Cathedral" - he spent several years diving in Salisbury Plain - see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/hampshire/content/articles/2008/06/05/cathedral_diver_feature.shtml

look who is about 3 households away from the Rigby farm in 1881

Thomas Frith 57 farmer, born Little Crosby c 1824
Anne Frith 63
Thomas Frith 23
Elizabeth Frith 20
William Ratcliff 23
Thomas Prendergast 21
Robert Miller 23

I would expect that Thomas is a brother of Elizabeth who married John Rigby


the household in 1851 in Little Crosby

Edward Frith 50
Clara Frith 49
Thomas Frith 24
Edward Frith 21
William Frith 18
Joseph Frith 11
Luke Frith 8
Robert Watkinson 16
Richard Day 30
Michael Smith 16
Ann Newton 18


but no, here they are in 1841

Civil parish: Sephton
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Great Crosby

Edward Frith 40
Clara Frith 35
Robert Frith 15
Thomas Frith 15
Edward Frith 9
William Frith 8
Mary Frith 4
Joseph Frith 2

hmm, no Elizabeth .......


aha, also in Sephton

Joseph Fieth 35
Cathrine Fieth 35
Mary Fieth 9
Cathrine Fieth 7
** Betsy Fieth 5
Ann Fieth 4
Eliza Fieth 3

an Ancestry user has corrected Joseph's name to Frith and says

'William Frith, Joseph's brother listed next door. Dates match for both. Transcription error seems likely'

someone to contact !

and you should correct Rigley that Glitter Baby found to Rigby in 1891 ... other people looking for the family will be able to find them and contact you :-)


here is Elizabeth Frith with her family in 1851

Name: Betsy Frith
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph Frith
Mother's Name: Cathrine Frith
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Little Crosby, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Little Crosby

Joseph Frith 41 farmer of 40 acres born Little Crosby
Cathrine Frith 43 born West Derby
Mary Frith 18
Cathrine Frith 16
* Betsy Frith 15
Eliza Frith 13
William Frith 60
John Holcroft 25
George Pitchforth 16
John Fazackerby 12

Another one for the 1871 census. Witnesses Joseph Rigby and Anna Frith.
Address Edinburgh Street.

There is also Maria b 1867, Maria Elizabeth b 1870 and Anna 1871 with same
parents

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about Agnes Rigby Name: Agnes Rigby
Birth Date: 8 Aug 1863
Baptism Date: 16 Aug 1863
Parish: St Anthony´s
Father's Name: Joannis Rigby
Mother's Name: Eliz Frith


Vera

you're right mgnv ... as a matter of fact when I finally went to bed last night this came into my head and I thought oops ! ... I know why mgnv posted that ! ... I should have got right back up and fixed my mistake ...

it was very late and my mind was going blank, I know you will forgive me :-)

and Vera has confirmed the Rigby Frith marriage now I think

have had a lovely thank-you PM from Joanie

Information for the 1871 family. Original has witnesses Robert Rigby and Elizabeth Frith. Address 45 Edinburgh Road

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about Cath Rigby Name: Cath Rigby
Birth Date: 26 Mar 1861
Baptism Date: 31 Mar 1861
Parish: St Anthony´s
Father's Name: Joannis
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Frith

Vera

Wow. so much info to go through and maybe and end to the mystery !

Thanks Folks x

Chrissiex - you may know that, but Joannie seems to be under the impression that the m.cert just says parish church when she reads it.

we know that part mgnv, that is where Joanie started from, it is the 'known known' ! :-)

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
RIGBY Joseph STEWARDSON Mary E Kirkdale, St. Mary Liverpool 2013WD/14/379

I had been looking at this very marriage :-)

Marriages Dec 1856
? Frith Elizabeth W Derby 8b 793
Orme James W. Derby 8b 793
Owen Sarah W Derby 8b 793
? Rigby John W Derby 8b 793

but had not been able to identify Elizabeth Frith before the marriage

This could be same one as Chrissiex1871 census. The latin names apparently translate to Joseph and John, Original has witnesses as ?Julian
and Ann Rigby

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about Josephus Rigby Name: Josephus Rigby
Birth Date: 28 Sep 1865
Baptism Date: 1 Oct 1865
Parish: St Anthony´s
Father's Name: Joannis
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Frith


Vera

any time, we all love it :-)

my gut feeling is the one in 1871 in Everton with parents John and Elizabeth ... but other than Agnes in 1881 I can't find a one of them

should also be able to find John and Elizabeth with baby Catherine possibly in 1861 but no luck there either

I am wondering whether one or more of the children were not born Rigby

there is an 1861 marriage ... yay two Elizabeths

Marriages Mar 1861
Benn Elizabeth Margaret Liverpool 8b 432
Greenland Elizabeth Emma Liverpool 8b 432
Rigby John Liverpool 8B 432
Sexton Samuel Newman Liverpool 8b 432

but they are not to be found in the 1861 census


... there was a daughter Agnes in 1871, John Rigby was born in Little Crosby ...

1851

Name: John Rigby
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Agnes Rigby
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Little Crosby, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Little Crosby
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: West Derby

Agnes Rigby 43
Peter Rigby 22
Thomas Rigby 19
John Rigby 16
William Rigby 14
James Rigby 12
Robert Rigby 10
Agnes Rigby 7
Joseph Rigby 5
Ann Rigby 1

in 1861 there are Peter, Thomas, William, Agnes, Ann with mother Agnes ... no John anywhere


I am thinking this has to be Elizabeth in 1881, there is no other one in Crosby in 1871 ... drat I had kept looking at her and thinking she must be someone else ... but now ... !

1881

Name: Elizabeth Rigby
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Little Crosby, Lancashire, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Farm Managers Wife

Civil parish: Little Crosby
Registration district: West Derby
Street Address: A Hightown
( it has something scratched out that seems to say Both of Same House ... Rigbys are last in book and household before says schedule 80A, address Hightown )

Elizabeth Rigby 47
Anne Rigby 9 -- born Liverpool


um hum ... 1881 in Little Crosby

Name: Agnes Rigby -- John's mother
Age: 73
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Crosby, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Farmer
Condition as to marriage: Widower

** Name: Joseph Rigby
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
** Relation: Grandson
** Father's Name: John Rigby
Gender: Male
Where born: Lpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Little Crosby
Registration district: West Derby
Street Address: Hightown

Agnes Rigby 73
John Rigby 40 married manager of farm
William Rigby 22
Joseph Rigby 16
John Sefton 23
Patrick Murry 60
Alice Massam 18
Street Address: Hightown


they are three pages apart in the census book, so maybe estranged, maybe John just slept over at his mother's farm


I think this is them, I really do :-)

Sorry I did, after all these years i thought i had cracked it, when i opened the enverlope with the certs and No birth date on it i was so disapointed but will carry on...

your a star for helping me xx

oh ! could look at electrol rolls to see who else was living in house at time of marriage...That one looks good, the Billinge one looks a maybe because when their son joseph signed up into army age 21, 1917 it says on his records that his dad Joseph was in Wigan working...and billinge is in wigan...

so the mystery goes on, but he always put Liverpool as his birth place.

thanks Joanie xx

no address for Joseph on the marriage certificate ?

what do you think of the one with parents John and Elizabeth in 1871 ?

( that is a different one from the one in Billinge who is in Billinge Chapel End in 1871 also ... born abt 1870 )


oops you edited your post :-)

the only way to know is to keep investigating ... I've been trying to track the sisters ... Catherine may have married Peter Ackers in 1877 and this looks like possibly him in 1881 but I can't find her

Name: Peter Achers
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Servant
Where born: Barton, Lancashire, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Farm Servant (Indoors)

Civil parish: Altcar
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Ormskirk

just says parish church, but they both lived in Everton all their lives....within 1/2 mile....x

Thank you so much will check this one out in morning and let you know how i get on, but problem is how will i know it's him !....will try and get to records office soon, its been done up so hope it open...and maybe look for local paper reports of his death to see if there are any clues...plus maybe the burial records in Liverpool may say the date....one can only hope so i can go further back...once again thank you all for your kind help....Joanie x

here is one in 1871 whose age matches the 1911 census and the death certificate

Name: Joseph Rigby
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Rigby
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Rigby
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Everton

John Rigby 37 warehouseman, born Little Crosby
Elizabeth Rigby 35 born Little Crosby
Catherine Rigby 10 children all born Liverpool
Agnes Rigby 7
Joseph Rigby 5


living in Everton in W Derby reg dist where the marriage took place ... was the marriage in Everton ?


edit ... in 1881, Agnes is a servant in Everton ...

maybe cause mary ellen was about 9 yrs younger....

their children names were...Joseph - mary ellen - margaret and maria.

thanks for all the help folks x

the info on Joseph himself from the 1901 census

Name: Joseph Rigley
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ellen Rigley
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England


it's possible he was christened in the late 1870s ... but it's unusual ...

but the Upholland christening gives a birth date of 1878 so I can't see it being related

and that person is in the 1901

Name: Joseph Rigby
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Rigby
Mother's Name: Margaret Rigby
Gender: Male
Where born: Upholland, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: St Helen


Ann of Green Gables did not put a date on the census posted with this person

Joseph RIGBY Son U Male 12 Billinge, Lancashire, England Scholar

is it 1881 ?


your Joseph certainly does seem to have played fast and loose with his age unfortunately :-)


edit

for the location of the marriage

Marriages Dec 1892
Rigby Joseph West Derby 8b 711
Stewardson Mary Ellen W. Derby 8b 711


Mary Ellen Stewardson in 1891 for info

Name: Mary B Stewardson .... it says Mary E not Mary B
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Harrison Stewardson
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Everton

Harrison Stewardson 45
Peter Stewardson 16
Mary B Stewardson 14
Louisa Stewardson 12
George Wright 33
Charlotte Wright 30
Margaret A Robotham 6