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11 y ago, I drove from Winnipeg to Minneapolis. I started heading S, along the edge of the Red Rivver - land flat as a pancake. Abt half an hour before Fargo, I went up a slight rise - abt 10 feet in a mile. At the crest of the rise, there's a sign by the roadside saying "Continental Divide". Not exactly like crossing the Rockies thru Kicking Horse Pass. It was actually the Atlantic/Arctic watershed. After Minneapolis, I went on to visit some former schoolmates in Duluth. Now I'm used to hearing strangish stuff in the radio weather forecasts - we get ski reports in the winter and ferry sailing waits in the summer, but in Duluth in late September, they got tree-leaf colour reports (bit pointless here - evergreen means they're green). Apparently people come from up to 300km away at the weekends to drive the N shore of L Superior and look at the "fall colours".I can't comment much about them - at night they're darkish.

Thanks everyone, does seem as if our George did go to Winnipeg and then onto Minneapolis, we've found his death record and related it to his parents. You've all been a great help but BEWARE I'll come looking for you all again next time I'm at a loss. GRATEFUL THANKS :-D

Margee's hits:


You're best to magnify the images 4 clicks, then save them.

1920
http://www.archive.org/stream/14thcensusofpopu832unit#page/n893/mode/1up
[addy=315 N 20th Ave, Minneapolis - N 20th was renamed Broadway and the house obliterated by the interchange with I 94]
[Geo immig 1914, and is a watchman]

1930
http://www.archive.org/stream/minnesotacensus00reel1097#page/n874/mode/1up
[addy=2820 S 27th Ave, Minneapolis]
[Geo immig 1914 - is an alien, and a clerk]

Most border crossings from Canada to US are transcribed as being St. Albans, Vermont only because that'e where the records were kept. You have to look at the original to see where the border crossing actually happened, often way out west.

Thanks everyone, it's mind blowing that so many people are so helpful. I will try and follow up on the information given and let you know how I get on.
Thanks again
Gareth

just a note about this

Port of Arrival: St Albans, Vermont, United States

gazillions of Canada to US border crossing records at Ancestry say that and they are almost all nonsense ... for some reason Ancestry ignores the actual place of the crossing and puts that

it makes sense that he would have lived in Manitoba for a little bit and then crossed the border there and settled in Minnesota

... although ... in this case it could really be accurate, he could have crossed into the US immediately after arriving back in Canada ...

Thank you so much,Malcolm.
As usual- I had to read your post again and again.

Some of that may have finally lodged in my brain.

From Medicine Hat to the hoodoos! Scary thought!!!!!

Maureen

Same bloke returning to Canada after a visit to England? He's heading to Winnipeg, says he has previously been in Canada for 3 years up until 1914.

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
about George England Name: George England
Gender: Male
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Date of Arrival: 11 Jul 1914
Vessel: Laurentic
Search Ship Database: View the 'Laurentic' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-4810

Although this looks like a border crossing at St. Albans, Vermont, the original is his arrival from Liverpool, 4 July 1914 aboard the Laurentic. Last permanent address is given as Canada.

Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1956
about George England Name: George England
[Geroge England]
Arrival Date: 12 Jul 1914
Port of Arrival: St Albans, Vermont, United States
Ship Name: Laurentic
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Age: 45
Birth Date: abt 1869
Birth Country: England
Gender: Male
Race/Nationality: English
Record Type: Manifests

Second thought maybe this is his crossing into USA after disembarking the Laurentic.

On 1920 US census he's a roomer in same place.

Could this possibly he him in Minnesota in 1930? Says he's married, age at first marriage was 21. emigrated to USA 1914.

1930 United States Federal Census
about George England Name: George England
Birth Year: abt 1869
Birthplace: England
Home in 1930: Minneapolis, Hennepin, Minnesota
View Map
Relation to Head of House: Head

Household Members: Name Age
George England 61

There's a number of factors that need to be considered in planning a census. The most important are:
1) How much "work" should each enumerator do?
2) How long does it take an enumerator to get the answers to the census questions?
3) How long would it take the enumerator to visit every residence in his district?
4) What is the literacy rate?

In England & Wales, the answers to these questions produced one strategy:
Enumeration forms were distributed to all households a couple of days before census night and the complete forms were collected the next day. All responses were to reflect the individual's status as of 31 March 1901 for all individuals who had spent the night in the house. People who were traveling or living abroad were enumerated at the location where they spent the night on census night. All of the details from the individual forms were later sorted and copied into enumerators' books, which are the records we can view images of today. The original householder's schedules from 1841 to 1901 were destroyed. (The enumerators were expected to checke all questions were answered, and to get answers for the missing bits.)

In Canada (and probably the US, but I don't know abt them) a different stategy was used, primarily due to the answer to 3.
The answers to 1 were similar - an average of 1040 (English/Welsh) individuals enumerated cf 781 Canadians (1911).
The answers to 2 & 4 favoured the UK model - Canadian censuses were more detailed, and Canadians were more literate.
However, the difference in 3 outweighed this - an English enumerator had a max of 15 miles to travel.

But look at this sub-district (which includes the land where Drumheller AB would later be):
District: 4. Medicine Hat
Sub-District Number: Sub-District Description:
60 Townships 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 in ranges 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 west of the 4th M, including Munson Village

This 6 x 6 block of 36 sq mile townships covers 1296 sq miles.
Now it's certainly not feasible here to drop off the forms in a day, nor pick them up in another day. Clearly, the best way is to go round once and do each house as you got to it. But even this would take some time. The enumerator would indicate on the form somewhere what exact day he visited each house. (It's in the header on the URL image I gave earlier.)

So in Canada, a nominal census day was set, and the enumeration normally started that day (unless it were a Sunday).
The enumerator was supposed to establish the household composition as of their normal place of abode, and as of the nominal census date regarding recent births and deaths. The enumeration would continue until it was done (in 1911, 96% were completed within 3 m & all by 8 m).

In Canada & the US, censuses are intimately tied to electoral constituencies and proportional representation (the USA put their census in the 1st article of their constitution).
However, in the UK giving the riff-raff the vote wasn't a priority. (England & Wales had 58% of UK population in 1831, and 78% of seats in parliament. After The Great Reform Act of 1832, their seats plumetted to 76%.)

Although I don't think Canada adopted it, the best course would have been to use the UK method in the cities, and the Canadian method in rural areas.
I don't know when they changed it, but certainly thru 1979, Canada had 2 sorts of constituency - rural and non-rural. To vote in a non-rural constituency, one had to have one's name on the Register of Electors, but not in rural constituencies. (As a consequence, a rural constituency in Newfoundland once had a voter turn-out of 139% of registered voters - gives weight to the slogan "Vote early and vote often".) Nowadays, one has to be registered everywhere to vote in federal elections.

The date at the top of that 1911 census page is June 14.

Please-"census for dummies" needed on my part.
Why do "they" always say that the 1911Canadian began/started on June 1. I guess it went on for a while,,,,,,,,,

Maureen
(don't ever get me started about Portage and Main)

The 1911 UK census was taken 2 April. The 1911 Canadian census was taken 1 June.

There is a George England, carpenter, b May 1869, immig 1911, living in a lodging house in downtown Winnipeg on 14/6/1911. If this were your George, as seems likely, then he shouldn't really be on the 1911 census, which was supposed to be residents as of 1/6/1911. If George debarked 7/6/1911, he could certainly get to Winnipeg in 7 days (more like half that).
Dagmar St is off Notre Dame, just 7 blocks from Portage & Main.

1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Manitoba / Winnipeg / 43 Winnipeg / page 14
40 77 England George M Lodger S May 1869 42

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001954389.pdf

I don't see him in the 1916 Prairie census - maybe he's left for BC, Ont or the US.

You can search 1911 via:
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/index.jsp

England George 42 Manitoba Winnipeg Winnipeg 43 14 40
Looks like the address is 69 Dagmar?


Could this be him on the 1911 Winnipeg census??

EDIT..........not sure what month it was taken.........it is only an index but some extra info is he was born MAY 1869

Thanks Ann, might well do that.

Gareth

Unable to see any other records relating to him that you are not already aware of ... no divorce at the NA listed

What about changing your heading to WINNIPEG (POST 1911 )BMD RECORDS HELP if nothing turns up.

Ann

Thanks Gwyn, looks like I can rule him out.

Gareth