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Can we go back to that marriage cert please?

Could you give us ALL the details - occupation, fathers, addresses, ages, witnesses etc.

Dea x

I don't believe that is the correct 1911 you have posted Shirley.
The husband is JAMES and should be John - occupations not quite right either and they have all 7 of their 'born' children listed on there.

JOHN and Annie had a son George on 1901 and he is not included!

I thik that family belongs to the marriage in 1895 of JAMES Welby + Annie Shaw.

I can't find the correct one on 1911 at the moment though - will take another look.

Dea x

Well, no use yet with Annie, I am afraid but, in case you are not aware of this, this is son George
travelling to Australia in 1923, intending to make it is permenant home:

passenger transcript details
Name: Mr Geo WELBY
Date of departure: 28 March 1923
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Melbourne, Australia
Passenger destination: Melbourne, Australia

Date of Birth: 1901 (calculated from age)
Age: 22
Marital status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Coal Miner

Ship:

EURIPIDES
133648
P J Collins
The Aberdeen
Australia
19104
9399
702

His home address was 15 Baslow St., Beswick, Manchester which ties in with the birth cert of his sister Elsie at that address in 1913 according to your tree on Ancestry!

Dea x

P.S. - Your tree on Ancestry also has the birth details of Annie as 29/4/1878 in Moston, Manchester - was this an error?

Dea x

Just in case,although the father's name is "off":
1911 census transcription details for: 89 Malcolm Street Clayton Manchester
RG14PN24311 RG78PN1393 RD467 SD6 ED30 SN180

Reg. District: Prestwich Sub District: Bradford
WELLEY, John James Head Married M 34 1877 Coal Miner Hewer Bradford Manchester
WELLEY, Annie Wife Married
15 years F 34 1877 Bolton Lancashire
WELLEY, George Son Single M 12 1899 School Beswick Manchester
WELLEY, Nelly Daughter Single F 9 1902 School Beswick Manchester
WELLEY, Robert Son ? Clayton Manchester
STANLEY, Harry Boarder Single M 18 1893 Collier Hewer Hulme Salford


Maureen

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1895
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WELBY James SHAW Annie Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended Manchester MCR_RM/135/115

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1897
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WELBY John P ISHERWOOD Annie Prestwich Registrar Attended Manchester PRE_RM/33/77

That 1911 looks VERY interesting Maureen - I will go and take a look!

Dea x

EDIT - It HAS to be them - It does say Welby on image! - I just don't know why his middle name should now be James??

This means that her place of birth is consistant at Bolton on both census.

Dea x

Annie was married from this address in 1897 so there must be some connection here but I can't seem to link it up to Annie:

1901
ISHERWOOD, Wm Head Married M 34 1867 General Labourer Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, Mary Ann Wife Married F 29 1872 Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, John N Son Single M 9 1892 Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, Susannah Daughter Single F 7 1894 Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, Ada Daughter Single F 5 1896 Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, Herman Son Single M 2 1899 Manchester Lancashire


RG number:
RG13 Piece:
3760 Folio:
161 Page:
12

Sub District:
Newton Enumeration District:
25 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Newton Heath St Mark

Municipal Borough:
Address:
18, George Street, North Manchester County:
Lancashire


Dea x

Elsie was born 1914 (unless late 1913 reg early 1914)

Births Mar 1914 (>99%)
WELBY Elsie Sherwood Prestwich 8d 802 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1915 (>99%)
WELBY Annie Isherwood Prestwich 8d 823 Scan available - click to view
Births Sep 1919 (>99%)
Welby John P Isherwood Prestwich 8d 631

Thanks Ann,

She was born 15th December 1913

Dea x

This one`s Samuel, not John:

Marriage: 5 Jun 1873 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Samuel Isherwood - 23 Labourer Bachelor of Prestolee
Emma Monk - 31 Reeler Spinster of Prestolee
Groom's Father: James Isherwood, Farmer
Bride's Father: William Monk, Gas Inspector
Witness: Alexander Rhind; Harriet Rhind, (X)
Married by Banns by: Henry J. Stephens, Curate
Register: Marriages 1873 - 1876, Page 5, Entry 10
Source: LDS Film 2356229

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1877
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
ISHERWOOD Samuel 28 Farnworth Bolton FTH/33/174

Marriage: 22 Mar 1880 St John the Evangelist, Farnworth with Kearsley, Lancashire, England
James Ward - (X), 24 Slater Bachelor of 24 Gerrard St. Kearsley
Emma Isherwood - 28 Widow of 40 Gerrard St. Kearsley
Groom's Father: John Ward, deceased, Gardener
Bride's Father: William Monk, deceased, Gas Inspector
Witness: Sarah H. Fletcher; Thomas Ward, (X)
Married by Banns by: Thomas Woodhouse
Register: Marriages 1878 - 1886, Page 48, Entry 96
Source: LDS Film 1538441

Oh hi everyone, sorry for not getting back on here today.
Just had a quick look through all the posts - wow you lot are amazing!
My grandmother was indeed Elsie Welby who married Reginald Walker on 29/2/1936 in Romford, on her marriage certificate it states her father was John Patrick Welby. So I am defo sure his name was John Patrick, also confirms on her birth certificate as John Patrick Welby (He seems to like his middle name!) Occupation of JPW is listed as Coliery Fireman on Elsie birth cert (15/12/1914/15) she was born in Bradford, Prestwich, Manchester.

JPW marriage certificate (Assuming I ordered the correct one!) confirms his full name and states he is a mechanic fiter living at 26 George St. Newton, Prestwich? Manchester. this marriage took place on 19/4/1897 his age says 20. His wife Annie is listed as being 20 and living at 18 George St. her father = John Isherwood - cotton millhand.

Their witnesses are Alexander Oz*own?? and Emma Myland (I really cant work their names out at the moment)

I have recently made contact with a lady in Australia who is related to me through this line. Her mother was Mary-Ann I think and her father was George (I think) I WILL DEFO CHECK THIS OUT SHORTLY

My father and her remember out of the blue a younger George turning up one day in Australia from Manchester, he had decided to join his relatives out there without any warning and she remembers him living with her parents until he found his feet.

This would have been a cousin of my Dad's I think....

Anyway I think I'm rambling on now....

Does any of this help???

I can't believe how much you have all looked into this, It's the first time I have ever posted anything and I didn't expect anyone to respond let alone offer so much information and help.

:-D

My relatives mother was Mary Ann Welby born 29/3/1880 she was the next child born after John Patrick Welby. She went to Aus. Here is what she recently said:

Mary Ann and her husband Richard Land immigrated here in 1912 my father was six.
There was his cousin George Welby as I remember he was James son, an only child. I do remember him from when I was a child he boarded with Mary Ann and Richard. He appears to have just turned up at some time, he probably migrated as an adult.I would think that he is probably the George your father remembers,he would be your father and my second cousin. I am guessing your father was probably a child when that all happened. George is the father of Carolyn I mentioned this morning or was it evening for you? There is quite a sad story to tell of their family, if you are interested i can relate that.
Manchester seems to be mainly where we came from Dad was born there, the family seemed to be mainly situated there.

Hope this makes it a little clearer??? I hope your heads are not as jumbled as mine now!!!

JPW - AI marriage Corpus Christ something church, Newton, Prestwich, Manchester. (Roman Catholic)

Dea, Hi
You have posted:

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
3760 Folio:
161 Page:
12

Sub District:
Newton Enumeration District:
25 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Newton Heath St Mark

Municipal Borough:
Address:
18, George Street, North Manchester County:
Lancashire

Do you think she was staying there with close relatives and maybe met JPW who lived a couple of door down?.... or am I clutching at straws here!!

I wonder if it is worth trying to contact the Corpus Christi church where the marriage took place. Quite often in RC records the priest has added extra info about the couple in the actual register.

Re Corpus Christi, Miles Platting
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1919402

This church closed in 2007 - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parishes_in_the_Diocese_of_Salford


http://www.dioceseofsalford.org.uk/overview-chancery-and-tribunal/diocesan-archives
say:
Please note however that parish registers are not held centrally. Many early registers of baptism and marriages have been deposited at the Lancashire Record Office, Preston, both to ensure their safe preservation, and to aid genealogical research. For fuller details, see the current edition of Finding Folk, published by the LRO. Registers otherwise are normally held in the parish they belong to, or one nearby. etc

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1891
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ISHERWOOD William MANNIX Mary A Prestwich Registrar Attended Manchester PRE_RM/20/157

Hi Lianne,

Had to give up last night as I kept getting SO many error pages on this site - I believe GR were 'fiddling' with it again.

Firstly - you have marked the thread as 'answered' - I realise that you probably thought that you were just meaning that you had answered the question and given more info. However, when this tick is put on it actually means that your thread has been answered and so you don't need any more help - It is best that you 'untick' it so that people continue to look and help.

Re the George your father remembers - could that have been the one who arrived in 1923 - Elsie's older brother (your father's uncle?).

The witness on the wedding cert, by the way, is Alexander BROWN.

Do you recognise the Isherwoods from the 1901 at 18 George St. which I posted? - They must be a part of your family somewhere.

I will see if I can make the connection.

Dea x

I think these people are your's



14/07/1931 John Patrick Welby Philips Park Cemetery BRoman Catholic 302 View details
23/06/1936 John Patrick Welby Philips Park Cemetery BRoman Catholic 302 View details
28/05/1947 Annie Welby Philips Park Cemetery BRoman Catholic 302


Maybe not as the child John Patrick Welby 1935 - 1936 his mother's maiden name was Swindells

more children ?
21/05/1913 Child Of Annie Welby Philips Park Cemetery DConsecrated 1446 View details
22/09/1909 Child Of Annie Welby Philips Park Cemetery DConsecrated XXX View details
22/11/1912 Child Of Annie Welby Philips Park Cemetery DConsecrated 436

http://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk/GenSearch.aspx

Re Dea's post on 7 Dec 2011 13:47

On Annie's Marriage certificate she states she lives at 18 George Street, Newton. However the head of this household seems to be William!

I really don't understand it, could it be that this is her Uncle and she is just lived with them for a time before her marriage?

I found on the 1891 census a John age 51 Grinder with wife Elizabeth 50 and one child with them Annie all born in Manchester and living at 6 Canning Place, Arncoats, Manchester..... I wondered if this was her?



1901
ISHERWOOD, Wm Head Married M 34 1867 General Labourer Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, Mary Ann Wife Married F 29 1872 Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, John N Son Single M 9 1892 Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, Susannah Daughter Single F 7 1894 Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, Ada Daughter Single F 5 1896 Manchester Lancashire
ISHERWOOD, Herman Son Single M 2 1899 Manchester Lancashire

He could be a brother, or a cousin, etc. ?

It may just be a distant connection but I really think there may be one there?

I am still trying to connect them - we have no other 'real' clues.

Dea x