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Mike

That Ellen Clark registration coming up with Arthur and Emma's marriage could be a red herring. Hopefully the marriage certificate will throw up some info to lead you to the corrrect birth cert.

Vera

According to Emma Boylan's (nee Herbert) death record her birthday was 31st January 1893

This fits with the quarter on freebmd

Births Mar 1893
Herbert Emma - Doncaster 9c 773
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Ellen Clark however is the following quarter

Births Jun 1893
Clark Ellen - Doncaster 9c 807

She is certainly proving to be a mystery.
Looks like I will have to invest in the Ellen Clark birth cert as well as the Emma Herbert one if only to see if they could be the same person.

Still doesn't explain why she can't be found in 1911 as Emma Herbert.

Thanks again for all the info you supplied.

Mike not sure what it means. Below their explanation.

The tables below show a summary of all the reference numbers that you have clicked on during your current search session from the Local BMD sites that use the UKBMD software.

These tables allow you to review the selected entries to note down for future reference or to order copy certificates.

I can't find Emma Herbert on Yorkshire bmd although she is in GRO.

How about this. The couple eloped (Ann only 17) returned to Yorkshire. Ann returns home has the baby and names her after her mother. I wonder if parents knew they were married. Then later gets back together with husband and renames Ellen Emma. I should write novels! Perhaps Yorkshire Register Office could explain.the Ellen Clark record.

Vera

Hi Vera

Does the cross reference to Ellen Clark mean that she was born Ellen Clark but renamed Emma Herbert ?

So she may not be either of these then ?


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Births Mar 1893
Herbert Emma - Doncaster 9c 773

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Births Jun 1893
Herbert Emma - Rotherham 9c 730

I had pretty well ruled out the Rotherham one as Denaby Main is covered by Doncaster district. But they may both be wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to search


The marriage of George Herbert seems to tie in with Emma's grandfather Charles .... but then .. why would the child born 1893 be registered as Clark if the parents married in 1892 ?

This could be the Wandsworth registration. Both fathers employed as farm labourers. Couple living at 9 Upper orchard Street before the marriage. Witnesses Edward and Mary Ann Foster. George Thomas working as Goods Porter.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Ann Clark Name: Ann Clark
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Spouse Name: George Thomas Herbert
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Dec 1892
Parish: Clapham Park All Saints
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Charles Clark
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Herbert
Register Type: Parish Register

Vera

Not sure about the relevance of this but on Yorkshire bmd when looking for Emma's marriage it cross references it with this birth????

Birth Indexes

CLARK Ellen 1893 Doncaster Doncaster Yorkshire DON/67/94 N/A

Marriage Indexes

BOYLAN Arthur HERBERT Emma 1918 Doncaster Register Office Doncaster Yorkshire DON/49/80 N/A

Vera

Denaby is 6 miles from Rotherham and 8 miles from Doncaster...so it could be her as a waitress

K
Thanks for that, I can rule that one out at least

Doesn't look like it.


BALL, Elizabeth Head Widow F 69 1842 Private Means Hinckley Leicestershire
HERBERT, Emma Visitor Single F 18 1893 Hosiery Mender Hinckley Leicestershire

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
19012 Reference:
RG14PN19012 RG78PN1136 RD402 SD2 ED5 SN147

Registration District:
Hinckley Sub District:
Hinckley Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Hinckley

Address:
20 Spring Gardens Hinckley County:
Leicestershire


Births Jun 1893
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Herbert Emma Hinckley 7a 52

I notice George is George T in 1891 so it's a good bet.
Thanks for the 1911 census, pity no Emma.

Am wondering if this is her in 1911, maybe working away from home...

HERBERT EMMA - F - 1893 - 18 - Hinckley Leicestershire

I saw that marriage and agree but then you could say the same for Ellen 1855 Wendens Ambo Essex living in Yorkshire
Charles 1850 born Lincolnshire

married 19 yrs in 1911 so this is the only likely marriage to a Clark, but the location doesn't make sense !

Marriages Dec 1892 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CLARK Ann Wandsworth 1d 1126
HERBERT George Thomas Wandsworth 1d 1126
Starks Sidney Wandsworth 1d 1126
Stinton Amelia Wandsworth 1d 1126

This could be George Herbert lodger in 1891

HERBERT, George Head Married M 40 1871 Colliery Traffic Manager Wistow Yorks VIEW
HERBERT, Annie Wife Married
19 years F 39 1872 Huddersfield Yorks VIEW
HERBERT, Elsie Daughter F 6 1905 School Denaby Main Yorks VIEW
HERBERT, George Son M 3 1908 Denaby Main Yorks VIEW
HERBERT, Sydney Son M 0 (1 MONTH) 1911 Doncaster Yorks VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
28209 Reference:
RG14PN28209 RG78PN1610 RD512 SD3 ED20 SN308

Registration District:
Doncaster Sub District:
Doncaster Enumeration District:
20 Parish:
Wheatley

Address:
75 Stanhope Road Wheatley Doncaster County:
Yorkshire (West rid

Yes I am hoping that is the right birth cert ( it's on my short list)
I am just cautious because she may have been born to single mum who later married a Herbert and changed Emma's name.

Then again she may have been born Herbert to unmarried mother who later married

for instance...

Marriages Dec 1894 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clark John Thomas -Doncaster 9c 1309
Herbert Martha - Doncaster 9c 1309
Smith Martha Doncaster 9c 1309
Wheatley Francis Joseph Doncaster 9c 1309

Possible birth
Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
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Herbert Emma Doncaster 9c 773


Regards Vera

The Emma born Rotherham is not mine I don't think.
She lived all her life in and around Doncaster

GB
No afraid I don't have access to Ancestry so that info is very welcome.
Thanks a lot

And thanks Vera for the 1891.
I wonder if George Herbert is Emma's dad ?

1911 just in case it comes in handy

HIGGINS, George Head Married M 55 1856 Pick Sharpener Yorks Rotherham VIEW
HIGGINS, Florence Wife Second Married
9 years F 44 1867 Yorks Rotherham VIEW
HIGGINS, Leonard Son M 8 1903 Yorks Rotherham VIEW
HIGGINS, Doris Daughter F 6 1905 Yorks Rotherham VIEW
HERBERT, Chorlotte Dada F 12 1899 School Yorks Rotherham VIEW
HERBERT, Emma Daughter Single F 18 1893 Waitress In Restaurant Yorks Rotherham VIEW
HERBERT, John William Son Single M 21 1890 Labourer In Mine Yorks Rotherham VIEW
HALE, John William Boarder Single M 36 1875 Miner Coal Hewer Yorks Rotherham VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
28090 Reference:
RG14PN28090 RG78PN1604 RD511 SD3 ED17 SN9

Registration District:
Rotherham Sub District:
North West Rotherham Enumeration District:
17 Parish:
Rotherham

Address:
12 Ewers Road Kimberworth Rotherham



Marriages Sep 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Herbert Florence Rotherham 9c 1007
Higgins George Rotherham 9c 1007
Stevens Frank Robert Rotherham 9c 1007
Wilkes Catherine Heap Rotherham 9c 1007

These are Emma 's grandparents in 1891


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CLARK, Charles Head Married M 41 1850 Agricultural Labourer
Glentham
Lincolnshire VIEW
CLARK, Ellen Wife Married F 36 1855
Wendens Ambo
Essex VIEW
CLARK, Ann Daughter Single F 15 1876
Rothwell
Yorkshire
Haigh VIEW
CLARK, Herbert Son M 9 1882 Scholar
Brayton
Yorkshire VIEW
CLARK, Frank Son M 8 1883 Scholar
Brayton
Yorkshire VIEW
HERBERT, George T Servant Single M 20 1871 Farm Servant
Wistow
Yorkshire VIEW

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Piece:
3876 Folio:
8 Page:
3 Registration District:
Selby

Civil Parish:
Brayton Municipal Borough:
Address:
Brayton Hall, Brayton County:
Yorkshire (West Riding)

Regards Vera