Find Ancestors

Steven - we are all laymen on here! Granted, some of us have paid subscriptions to other sites which we use (e.g. @ncestry and FindMyPast) but nothing that isn't available to anyone

Let's just get straight who is you're great-grandfather - then we'll review what's what.

Hi MC - welcome and merry Christmas
My financial state dictates that I can't justify paying subscriptions at the moment.
Anyway my Great Grandfather is George Gepp b1869 d1924. I have his birth cert. and he is on census 1871 to 1911. Married to Catherine Richardson in 1894.
My Great Great grandfather is George Gepp b1845 d1801. I have birth cert. and he is on census 1871 to 1891 and married Elizabeth Bouffler 25/12/1868 - I have marriage cert.
:-)

I know you've already got 1871, but I'm putting it here to work back from:

GEPP, George Head M 27 1844 Middlesex Engine driver?? b St George's
GEPP, Elizabeth Wife F 30 1841 Middlesex
GEPP, George Son M 1 1870 Middlesex
GEPP, William Son M 1 1870 Middlesex
BOUFFLER, Ellizabeth Mother-In-Law F 57 1814 Hampshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Holborn
Civil Parish: Clerkenwell

Address: Queen's St, Clerkenwell County: London, Middlesex

That's the one MC - and he did work on the railways.
have to go now, but see you soon - Steve

This is just a remote possibility for 1851:

WELLINGTON, Sarah Head Married F 24 1827 Dress Maker London
WELLINGTON, Hannah Daughter F 0 (5 MOS) 1851 London
GIPP, Elizabeth Mother Widow F 54 1797 Monthly Nurse Axminster
GIPP, Hannah Sister F 21 1830 Servant London
GIPP, George Nephew M 7 1844 Scholar London
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Westminster
Civil Parish: Saint Margaret Westminster
Municipal Borough: Westminster

Address: 26, Little Chapel Street, Saint Margaret Westminster, Westminster County: Middlesex

Yes, that leads us back to 1841:

GEPP, George M 40 1801 occupation - M/S
GEPP, Elizth F 40 1801
GEPP, Elizth F 15 1826
GEPP, Sarah F 14 1827
GEPP, Hannah F 11 1830
GEPP, Jane F 9 1832
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: St George Hanover Square
Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
Municipal Borough: Westminster

Address: Eaton Place Mews, St George Hanover Square, Westminster County: Middlesex

Has most likely used his grandfather's name in place of father's when he married.

Quite possibly the death of George's mother:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915

Name: Elizabeth Bayley Gepp
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1864
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 393

The 1845 birth cert does not apparently record a second name for the mother...........

The census records all give George's age as being born well before 1845, but Steven is convinced the cert is for the birth of the person on the censuses.

I don't think 1844 is that long before 1845??????

A child aged 7 in 1851 would have been born before 30th March, 1844, and after 30th. March 1843.

I just want Steven to keep an open mind...........and to realise that the cert just may not be for his relative

There is no baptism record for the child on Ancestry, but that is not necessarily significant

Nudging this up following a pm from Steven requesting further research on my post of 26 Dec 2011 17:36.

George's baptism?

Parish Record Collection - Baptism Record

First names: George
Surname: Gepp
Baptism year: 1845
Baptism month: Feb
Baptism day: 19
Parish: St George, Hanover Square
County: Middlesex
Page: 499
Birth year: 1845
Birth month: Jan
Birth day: 30
Father's First names:
Mother's First names: Elizabeth - single woman
Record source: Westminster Baptisms- Transcripts
Data provider: Westminster Archives

Born in workhouse.

ADDED: This is definitely the baptism that matches the birth certificate that Steven has already. Apart from the birth date, Mount Street was the address of St George's workhouse http://www.workhouses.org.uk/StGeorgeHanoverSquare/
It doesn't necessarily mean that Elizabeth was "in the workhouse" but may have had George in the infirmary incorporated.

This death must be related. Steven said December 1844 but that would be the quarter in which it was registered.

Parish Record Collection - Burial Record

First names: George
Last name: Gepp

Burial year: 1844
Burial month: Oct
Burial day: 23
Age: 47
Parish: St George, Hanover Square
County: Middlesex

Record source: Westminster Burials- Transcripts
Data provider: Westminster Archives

The address for him on the image is Eaton Mews.

Thankyou so much MarieCeleste!
Everything matches with what I already have and I feel I have made a step forward after a long time without anything.
I did figure out eventually from the birth cert. that George (b1845) was born in the workhouse, but thanks for the hint that Elizabeth may not actually have been a resident. Also this confirms that he was illegitimate in that Elizabeth was a "singlewoman" I needed confirmation because i found a record fromLDS/familysearch of a marriage of one Elizabeth Gepp to a John Campbell in St John the Baptist, Shoreditch 07/01/1844.
I will write more later since I am required to get back to the present.
Thanks again
Steve :-)

Hello Steve, you're very welcome.

I did see that 1844 marriage you refer to and I fear she is not yours:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Elizabeth Gepp - WIDOW of Queen Street
Spouse Name: John Campbell (bachelor) - shoemaker of Charles Street
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 7 Jan 1844
Parish: Hoxton St John
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Benjamin Laurance (deceased) - Carpenter
Spouse Father Name: Job Campbell - shoemaker
Register Type: Parish Register

So this Elizabeth Gepp was born Elizabeth Laurence. She may have been married to one of your Gepp relations.

Aha! thank you.
The LDS record did not include the fact that this Elizabeth was a widow or that her maiden name was Laurence. I read somewhere that there was smallpox epidemic in East London at that time, which could explain why she was a widow.
So...I would like to find out what happened to my Elizabeth Bailey Gepp after the birth of her son, especially since he lived with his Aunt Sarah and not with his mother ( your post 26 Dec 2011 17:36). I had been thinking that she led a sad and desperate life, but may be not quite so lowly if, as you say she may not have actually been resident in the workhouse.
Also I would like to find out more about her father George (b c1797). I have a letter from my Great Aunt in which she says that the Gepp's were originally Welsh, so perhaps he was born in Wales, since the 1841 census shows that he was born "out of county". Big assumption, I know!
Thanks for your sterling work thus far
Steve :-)
PS: Is there any information from the Westminster Archives now available online?