Find Ancestors

Morning All
Reading all the posts this morning I can confirm the following - the John Henderson on the 1891 Census with a new wife(or partner)Mary and the three girls Caroline, Martha and Emma are mine.

I suspect that all the Baptisms done in 1882 are all the correct Hendersons that Im researching - I think John Henderson was not much of a scholar, poor and didnt get around to registering anything - there was obv a need for him to get aound to it in 1882 - maybe he was persuaded or maybe it all caught up with him.

Cant be sure whether John actually married his new partner Mary - he didnt appear to be in the habit of marrying them. Looks like he had a first wife/partner that he had Elizabeth and Annie. with, second partner Caroline who he had Caroline, Martha and Emma and then Mary who he had no children with.

The family on the 1881 census(Gun Street) are without any doubt mine due to many other family records that confim my Caroline 1872 and her sisters are def Martha and Emma.

The only puzzle here is why there dont seem to be any births, deaths or marriages regstered in the right(believed names).

I think Im left here with one option and thats to obtain the likely death certs for Caroline and if they show John Hendersonand/or the correct address then I have my answer.

Its good to talk - Thanks

Take it then the 1871census isnt the right John and Caroline ??

Edit I missed the birth date posting .! :-(

Thank you for that - great
On my Grandmother Caroline Chantry(b. 1872) Nee Hendersons marriage cert it does state that John was her Father but all of this is beginning to make me wonder as none of it makes sense.
Fear that after this one last attempt at the Hendersons I may have to gv up on them - the other lines have been more predictable and traceable !!!
You have made me look at this from another angle - i already suspected there was a little un truth here but think it may possibly be more than that.
closing for the night now - my cold has got the better of me.

Shirley, the Caroline we are looking for was born on 27.4.1872 birthdate given on Page 1 along with with those for Martha & Emma

I posted the birth for Caroline Elizabeth 1870 St Olave ties with the 1871 census

the birth cert will give mmn

Name: Caroline Elizabeth Henderson
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1870
Registration district: St Olave
Inferred County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 220

I'm just wondering whether the children were Carolines and not Johns.....just a thought.

Have you got the marriage certificate for your Caroline?

Go into FreeBMD

Just put the quarter and year that you are looking for that will narrow it down

If you know the registration district click on that on the right hand side

Just put the first name in ie Caroline

and Click on find

Hope that helps....

And no I cant find them either in the records nor can I find the older step sisters on the early census or births - odd, confused I am.

Appreciate everyones help - Ive got a bit to go on here.
Think that maybe the Hendersons were a bit economcal with the truth on the birth certs or let the registra assume they were married. I like the look of the names on the deaths for 1881 St Saviour - hv a gut feeling on the Caroline Martha - will look into it.
How do you look for deaths without a name so that I can use this myself ?

Thanks again

Strange, but I can't find birth registrations for Caroline, Martha or Emma under surname Henderson for birthdates given!

????

Marriages Dec 1881 (>99%)
Clark Henry St. Saviour 1d 272
HENDERSON John St. Saviour 1d 272
MUSTO Mary St. Saviour 1d 272
NASH Mary Ann St. Saviour 1d 272

Mary Ann Nash married Henry Clark

John married Mary Musto both widowed full age address 15 deacon Street

Name: John Henderson
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Spouse Name: Mary Musto
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 12 Dec 1881
Parish: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Henderson deceased
Spouse Father Name: Charles Willman gen dealer
Register Type: Parish Register

did John remarry??
1891 census

HENDERSON, John Head Married M 47 1844 Fruti Hawker Costermonger
Southwark
London VIEW
HENDERSON, Mary Wife Married F 49 1842 Cloth Sorter
Southwark
London VIEW
HENDERSON, Caroline Daughter Single F 19 1872 Cloth Sorter
Southwark
London VIEW
HENDERSON, Martha Daughter Single F 18 1873 Envelope Maker
Southwark
London VIEW
HENDERSON, Emma Daughter Single F 15 1876 Envelope Maker
Southwark
London VIEW
Piece:
347 Folio:
58 Page:
49 Registration District:
St Saviour Southwark

Civil Parish:
St George the Martyr Southwark Municipal Borough:
Address:
21, Gun Street, St George The Martyr Southwark County:
London

the birth cert will give mmn

Name: Caroline Elizabeth Henderson
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1870
Registration district: St Olave
Inferred County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 220

If you buy one of the childrens birth certs, it should have Carolines maiden name listed

These are the deaths for St Saviours Southwark

Deaths Jun 1881
BARTHOLOMEW Caroline 0 St. Saviour 1d 33
CLARK Caroline 7 St. Saviour 1d 20
Collins Caroline 1 St. Saviour 1d 11
GARRETT Caroline Matilda 72 St. Saviour 1d 12
Haselgrove Caroline Martha 29 St. Saviour 1d 81
Martin Caroline 0 St. Saviour 1d 96
Packman Caroline Frances 17
PATTON Caroline 38 St. Saviour 1d 62
Sherring Caroline 5 St. Saviour 1d 84
WILLEY Caroline 70 St. Saviour 1d 4

3 baptisms done the same day

Name: Martha Charlott Henderson
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1882
Baptism Date: 30 Apr 1882
Father's Name: John Henderson
Mother's name: Caroline Henderson
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth All Saints
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Name: Caroline Henderson
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1882
Baptism Date: 30 Apr 1882
Father's Name: John Henderson
Mother's name: Caroline Henderson
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth All Saints
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Name: Emma Henderson
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1882
Baptism Date: 30 Apr 1882
Father's Name: John Henderson
Mother's name: Caroline Henderson
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth All Saints
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers


doesn't equate with an 1881 death though so maybe a different family

Thank you for your efforts - much appreciated. They didnt live in Ilford - they lived in the Southwark area - presume that the death is registered where they are buried - usually the same but in this case different areas ??
And how on earth did you manage to find those - i obv dont know my way around.
If the death is registered where a person is buried i would narrow it down to the 38 or 45 year old - will need to get certs and see whether there are any clues.

Your a star
Many Thanks

I think Ilford came under West Ham Registration District; the following are deaths in Jun Qtr 1881

Deaths Jun 1881
Chew Caroline 58 W. Ham 4a 76
Crump Caroline 38 W. Ham 4a 4
ETTRIDGE Caroline Jane 23 W. Ham 4a 12
Speller Caroline 0 W. Ham 4a 6
Wallace Caroline 81 W. Ham 4a 2
WRIGHT Caroline 45 W. Ham 4a 56

Of course, Caroline could have been a middle name but was known as Caroline

Because i cant trace her death at all I think that they didnt get around to getting married - Is it going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack i \i dont know Carolines real surname - can i really look for all deaths where a caroline died on that date. she most def. died on that date and year as caroline her daughter kept the bible and made the entries. what Carolines dad John chose or forgot to say is that they hadnt married

having a bad day - Gun street was correct - I knew Id seen Kell st somewhere it was where john was born