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Mistycat
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24 Mar 2012 12:21 |
I cannot find a marriage between Herbert Clifford born abt 1879 Darlaston, Staffordshire and Mary Mantle born abt 1880, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire.
1901 census they are married, living in Manchester 1911 census they are in Coventry, Warwickshire, two children, married 11yrs.
Please can anyone see this couples marriage....I need to buy the cert to confirm the other info I have.....
Marriage is the only info I need, Thank you
Misty x
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K
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24 Mar 2012 12:35 |
Sorry I can't see their marriage either.
Kayx
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Mistycat
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24 Mar 2012 12:48 |
Thank you for looking for me Kay...
I do wonder if they never married, just fibbed about it, hope not, I need to confirm I have the correct Mary Mantle by her fathers name (if there is one on the cert) to go further back, with confidence I have the right family....
Misty x
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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24 Mar 2012 12:55 |
Have you got her name from one of the childrens birth certs?
Is it possible she was married before ?
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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24 Mar 2012 12:59 |
This is the only one born Wolverhampton Name: Mary Mantle Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1880 Registration district: Wolverhampton Inferred County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 6b Page: 547
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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24 Mar 2012 13:04 |
1891 Name: Mary Mantle Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: William Mantle Mother's Name: Jane Mantle Gender: Female Where born: Wolverhampton Civil parish: Wolverhampton Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western ED, institution, or vessel: 30 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2230 Folio: 23 Page Number: 13 Household Members: Name Age William Mantle 42 Jane Mantle 35 Charles Mantle 15 Thomas Mantle 13 Mary Mantle 11 Emily Mantle 8
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2230; Folio: 23; Page: 13; GSU roll: 6097340.
sister Emily is with brother Thomas but no Mary so seems likely she was "married" by then
no Mary mantle comes up for the 1901 census.
All posted for elimination purposes
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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24 Mar 2012 13:07 |
that 1899 marriage this is the page nos
Page Number: 1139
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K
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24 Mar 2012 13:09 |
I see your problem. Maybe they ran off together and never got round to the marriage.
I can see there is a marriage of a Mary Mantle b 1880 Woverhampton (based on Anc trees)to a Frederick William Spencer in 1899 with parents William and Jane which is presumably the wrong family.
Based on the birth place in 1911 given as Willenhall the parents of Stephen and Jane Mantle seem a reasonable possiblity, but this doesn't prove it. Maybe the use of Stephen as Herbert and Mary's third child helps to confirm this
Kayx
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Mistycat
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24 Mar 2012 13:09 |
Shirley...
I got her name from the birth cert of son Stephen James Clifford...
Mother Mary Clifford, formally Mantle Father Herbert Clifford Address..Princess St, Coventry....as on 1911 census
I guess it could be possible she was married before but goodness knows where I would find that one!!
Misty x
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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24 Mar 2012 13:10 |
1901 that Mary is listed and married to Frederick T Spencer
SPENCER, Frederick T Head Married M 23 1878 Metal Polisher (Washers & C) Wolverhampton Staffordshire VIEW SPENCER, Mary Wife Married F 21 1880 Metal Polisher (Washers & C) Wolverhampton Staffordshire VIEW SPENCER, Lily Jane Daughter F 0 (10 MOS) 1901 Wolverhampton Staffordshire VIEW TIBBITTS, William Boarder Widower M 60 1841 Turner Of Steel (Cycle Fittings) Wolverhampton Staffordshire VIEW TIBBITTS, Henry Boarder Single M 12 1889 Wolverhampton Staffordshire VIEW Piece: 2676 Folio: 23 Page: 38 Registration District: Wolverhampton Civil Parish: Wolverhampton Municipal Borough: Address: 24, Russell Street, Wolverhampton County: Staffordshirire
so not YOUR Mary Mantle
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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24 Mar 2012 13:14 |
The only other one was born Cannock 1881 census MANTLE, Edward Head Married M 23 1858 Coal Miner Wolverhampton Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 22 1859 Walsall Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Mary Daughter Single F 1 1880 Cannock Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Martha Daughter Single F 0 1881 Cannock Staffordshire VIEW Piece: 2784 Folio: 39 Page: 29 Registration District: Cannock Civil Parish: Cannock Municipal Borough: Address: John Street, Cannock County: Staffordshire
if your Mary was def born Wolverhampton then theres only the one birth
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K
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24 Mar 2012 13:17 |
Poss Mary Mantle in 1891 based on Willenhall birth in 1911
1891
Name: Mary Mantle Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Stephen Mantle Mother's Name: Mary A Mantle Gender: Female Where born: Willenhall, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Willenhall Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles Town: Willenhall County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Willenhall ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2237 Folio: 49 Page Number: 12 Household Members: Name Age Stephen Mantle 43 Mary A Mantle 34 Elizabeth Mantle 15 Edward Mantle 12 Mary Mantle 10 Stephen Mantle 8 John T Mantle 6 Eliza Mantle 2 Walter Mantle 1/12 Thomas Peart 69
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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24 Mar 2012 13:17 |
looks like the Cannock one is still at home in 1901
MANTLE, Edward Head Married M 43 1858 Coal Hewer Bilston Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Elizth Wife Married F 42 1859 Walsall Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Mary Daughter Single F 21 1880 Hedensford Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Hannah Daughter Single F 16 1885 Cannock Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Horace Son Single M 13 1888 Butchers Assistant Cannock Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Arthur E Son Single M 9 1892 Scarcliffe Derbyshire VIEW MANTLE, Susannah Daughter Single F 7 1894 Mansfield Nottinghamshire VIEW MANTLE, May Daughter Single F 4 1897 Mansfield Nottinghamshire VIEW MANTLE, Nellie Son Single F 2 1899 Mansfield Nottinghamshire VIEW Piece: 3140 Folio: 189 Page: 10 Registration District: Mansfield Civil Parish: Mansfield Municipal Borough: Address: (Sherwood Mill), Pecks Hill, Mansfield County: Nottinghamshire
So points back to that 1880 birth reg Wolverhampton for your Mary
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Mistycat
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24 Mar 2012 13:18 |
Shirley....I have this one
1901 Mary Clifford Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Herbert Clifford Gender: Female Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: Newton Heath St Augustine County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: St George
Herbert Clifford 22 Mary Clifford 21 Agnes Price 3 I have looked for a Mantle/Price marriage but cant see one!!
Misty x
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greyghost
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24 Mar 2012 13:23 |
Marriages Jun 1899 (>99%) Illidge Alfred Wolverhampton 6b 1139 Mantle Mary Wolverhampton 6b 1139 Porter Lucy Wolverhampton 6b 1139 Spencer Frederick Thomas Wolverhampton 6b 1139
1901 - Wolverhampton. Both above couples appear in census
Frederick T and Mary Spencer Alfred and Lucy Illidge Different Mary Mantle, they are not uncommon??
1911 - Frederick and Mary still in Wolverhampton with children and Mother in law Jane Mantle age 56 b Wolverhampton
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KathleenBell
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24 Mar 2012 13:40 |
The 1891 census given above by K does not seem to come up on Findmypast (at least I can't see it). This is the only likely one on Findmypast:-
MANTLE, William Head Married M 42 1849 Cabinet Locksmith Bridgnorth MANTLE, Jane Wife Married F 35 1856 Wolverhampton MANTLE, Charles Son Single M 16 1875 Iron Plate Worker Wolverhampton MANTLE, Thomas Son Single M 13 1878 Errand Boy Wolverhampton MANTLE, Mary Daughter Single F 11 1880 Scholar Wolverhampton <<<<<<<<<< MANTLE, Emily Daughter Single F 8 1883 Scholar Wolverhampton
Address: 15, Brook Street, Wolverhampton
This seems to fit in with the Wolverhampton birth given earlier, and the birth place of Willenhall given in the 1911 census would come under the Wolverhampton Registration District.
Kath. x
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KathleenBell
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24 Mar 2012 13:45 |
Same family in the 1881 census:-
MANTLE, William Head Married M 32 1849 Locksmith Bridgenorth Shropshire VIEW MANTLE, Jane Wife Married F 26 1855 W Hampton Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Charles Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar W Hampton Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Thomas Son Single M 3 1878 W Hampton Staffordshire VIEW MANTLE, Mary Daughter Single F 1 1880 W Hampton Staffordshire
Address: 2, Ct, Lt Brickiln St, Wolverhampton
Piece: 2795 Folio: 60 Page: 13 Registration District: Wolverhampton
Kath. x
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KathleenBell
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24 Mar 2012 13:55 |
I've checked Findmypast again and the Mary Mantle with Stephen and Mary A. as parents has been transcribed as Mande - but the image definitely looks like Mantle.
I don't know how you will work out which one is yours as there only seems to be one birth in Wolverhampton - not two, and without a marriage certificate it seems impossible to decide.
Kath. x
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Mistycat
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24 Mar 2012 13:55 |
I deleted my last post to Kath....it was all RUBBISH...sorry
Misty x
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K
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24 Mar 2012 13:55 |
This is the census I posted re Mary born in Willenhall in 1891 with father Stephen. I can't see it on FMP either. I still like the tie in of Mary and Herberts son in 1911 with the father here.
Kayx
Name: Mary Mantle Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Stephen Mantle Mother's Name: Mary A Mantle Gender: Female Where born: Willenhall, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Willenhall Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles Town: Willenhall County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Willenhall ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2237 Folio: 49 Page Number: 12 Household Members: Name Age Stephen Mantle 43 Mary A Mantle 34 Elizabeth Mantle 15 Edward Mantle 12 Mary Mantle 10 Stephen Mantle 8 John T Mantle 6 Eliza Mantle 2 Walter Mantle 1/12 Thomas Peart 69
Edit I think this is the FMP version
MANDE, Stephen Head Married M 43 1848 Night Soil Labourer Willenhall Staffordshire VIEW MANDE, Mary A Wife Married F 34 1857 Bilston Staffordshire VIEW MANDE, Elizabeth Daughter F 15 1876 Lock Maker Willenhall Staffordshire VIEW MANDE, Edward Son M 12 1879 Scholar Willenhall Staffordshire VIEW MANDE, Mary Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar Willenhall Staffordshire VIEW MANDE, Stephen Son M 8 1883 Scholar Willenhall Staffordshire VIEW MANDE, John T Son M 6 1885 Scholar Willenhall Staffordshire VIEW MANDE, Eliza Daughter F 2 1889 Willenhall Staffordshire VIEW MANDE, Walter Son M 0 (1M) 1891 Willenhall Staffordshire VIEW PEART, Thomas Lodger Widower M 69 1822 Brush Maker Kirmington Lincolnshire VIEW Piece: 2237 Folio: 49 Page: 12 Registration District: Wolverhampton Civil Parish: Willenhall Municipal Borough: Address: 4, Bow Street, Willenhall County: Staffordshire
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