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DEFINITELY not him in USA -


here are John Francis and Bertha together at 2 Chelsea Park Dwellings


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1847-1965

Name: John Francis Murray
Electoral Year: 1921
Parliamentary Division: Chelsea and Deptford
County or Borough: London


still there in 1922

John Francis, Bertha and Kathleen are all there in 1930


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1847-1965

Name: John Francis Murray
Electoral Year: 1930
Parliamentary Division: Chelsea
County or Borough: Kensington and Chelsea

1935 and 36 - still at the same address


John Francis, Bertha and Margaret


Bertha and Margaret on their own there in 1937


Would assume John Francis dies 1936/1937 ??

Deaths Dec 1936 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Murray John F 60 Chelsea 1a 446

I was going to try looking his address at marriage of 31 Francis Street in the 1901 and 1911, but there are lots of Francis Streets and I'm not sure which one it would be.

EDIT: Oops - hadn't refreshed and seen page 2! Looks like he's turned up!

Brilliant Choccy.
Thanks so much.
Who would have thought there would be 2 people with the same combination of Christian names.
Marie Celeste suggested that he could be on the same spaceship as several of her ancestors, but clearly not. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

and there was I thinking he'd run off and left her !


:-)

just to satisfy your curiosity, John Francis died 4th quarter 1936.
Just need to find out who he was now.
No problem. :-| :-|

1901

BEALE, Georges Single M 28 1873 Soldier
Gt Ellingham
Norfolk
Piece:
90 Folio:
132 Page:
42 Registration District:
St George Hanover Square
Civil Parish:
St George Hanover Square Municipal Borough:
Address:
St George Hanover Square County:
London

and...

1901

MURRAY, John Nil Single M 25 1876 Private Soldier
Brumbollogne Donegal Ireland (Drum??)
Piece:
90 Folio:
104 Page:
3 Registration District:
St George Hanover Square
Civil Parish:
St George Hanover Square Municipal Borough:
Address:
St George Hanover Square County:
London

(not sure if a coincidence, but in 1902 Bertha Dane was witness to George Beales Wedding, and they were witness to her and Johns, George was a Private in Coldstream Guards on image)...



Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beales George Chelsea 1a 742
Cardy Annie Agnes Chelsea 1a 742



1911

BEALES, George Head Married M 38 1873 Carman Fo Corn Merchant Gt Ellingham in the County of Norfolk
BEALES, Annie Agnes Wife Married
8 years F 37 1874 Wormingford on the County of Essex
BEALES, Bertha Florence Maria Daughter F 8 1903 Battersea in County London
BEALES, Cecil George Henry Son M 5 1906 Battersea in County London
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2190 Reference:
RG14PN2190 RG78PN75 RD26 SD2 ED2 SN43
Registration District:
Wandsworth Sub District:
North West Battersea Enumeration District:
2 Parish:
Battersea
Address:
13 Church Road Battersea

Chris :)

Thanks Chris.
Wonder if the Beales named their daughter after Bertha. That would make me think they were close friends.
If John was a soldier it would explain why I can´t find him on the censuses, but on his marriage cert he says he was a labourer.
The plot thickens.

The address on the 1901 image is Drum College, Donegal Ireland.

Quite possible that he was in the army in 1901 and had left by 1905. That was the time of the Boer War and many men joined the Army for short periods.

Aah, thanks for that Potty, I kept staring at it, lol.

Chris :)

Found WW1 enlistment papers for George Beale.
He was a private with the Colstream Guards & gives his age as 21 which I would imagine was his age when he joined originally. He was re enlisting for the duration of the war. Wife Annie Agnes Cardy, do def. him.
Off to look for John Francis during the time of the Boer War.
Thanks Chris & Potty.
Suspect John´s origins are in Ireland.

Wisechild, have you noticed that George's WW1 army record also contains his earlier war record?

I have tried looking for a WW1 record for John but no luck so far.

Yes Potty.
Thanks.
He appears to have been in South Africa almost up to the time of his marriage in 1902. His wife was a servant to a family in Chelsea in 1901.
I wondered if John was still abroad with the regiment when george & Annie got married, because Bertha was a witness & John wasn´t..Think it´s likely that John & George were friends from the regiment.

George's earlier Army record is also on findmypast but I can't see one for John

I wondered if perhaps John was visiting his family in Ireland in 1911 but there are loads of John Murrays!

Have found a Bartolomew Murray born 1876 Sligo to Bartholomew Murray & Ellen Murray Reynolds, but no sign of a John & of course, no evidence this is the same family. Don´t think John´s parents ever lived in England.
Am presuming that John must have been abroad with his regiment at the times of all the censuses.
Typical!!!

He would probably have been too young to have been in the Army 1891 (although possible) and he gave his occupation as labourer when he married so, unless he re-enlisted, he wasn't in the Army in 1911. Even if he was, he should still appear on the census.

There are a few baptisms for children of Bartholomew Murray and Ellen on Ancestry, including this one:

Name: John Murray
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 2 Jul 1878
Birth Place: Clooneagh, Sligo, Ireland
Father's Name: Bartly Murray
Mother's Name: Ellen Reynolds
FHL Film Number: 256012

There is also this one:

Name: John Murray
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 18 May 1874
Birth Place: Mayo, Ireland
Father's Name: Bartley Murray
Mother's Name: Ellen Galagher
FHL Film Number: 255904

but nothing for Donegal.