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Hi Mark,

I think it is clear from the census' and when Elizabeth (Joseph's first wife) died, that Ellen and her sister are the daughters of Joseph and Elizabeth. They were not illegitimate at all

Elizabeth died in 1890
I sent you a message previously with the details


Regards Jackie

I'm not questioning that, Mark, it's the parentage of Mary Lilley Shuttleworth that you had wrong. She was the daughter of Joseph Shuttleworth and his first wife Elizabeth Lilley. That's the certificate that should have been obtained.

Information taken from certificates

My grandad

Thomas Niblett 1918
mother Mary Lilley Shuttleworth

Mary Lilley Shuttleworth married Joseph Niblett 1908
Father Joseph Shuttelworth

A lesson learned, Mark. Don't post your tree online until you have confirmed the facts. You didn't even have your gt. gran's birth certificate. It would have confirmed that her mother was not Catherine. I just hope that nobody has copied your tree.

Will have to ask genes to change my tree as i am unable to ......

That confirms it, Lancashire Ann! Both Mary and Ellen were not daughters of Catherine Ainsworth. Thanks.

I think this confirms it - looking at the spelling of Mary's middle name ( not the usual Lily)

Births Sep 1886 (>99%)
Shuttleworth Mary Lilley Bolton 8c 455

he Ellen with mmn Lilley (born 1884 not 1885)

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1884
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
SHUTTLEWORTH Ellen Eastern Bolton Bolton LILLEY EB/90/261

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1886
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
SHUTTLEWORTH Mary L Great Bolton Bolton LILLEY GB/2/463


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1878
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
SHUTTLEWORTH Joseph LILLEY Elizabeth St George, Chorley Preston C7/4/332

Will send off for Elle's b/c

will report back when sent

As I said before, you really need to get that birth certificate. Catherne Ainsworth can't possibly be the mother of Ellen.

I think the same applies for Mary.

so just so i am clear in my own head - Joseph Shuttleworth and Catherine Ainsworth only had 1 daughter Mary Lilly

I dont have Ellen's birth cert no sorry

Do you have Ellen's birth certificate, Mark? Catherine gave birth to William Ainsworth Edge at the same time that Ellen was born.

No Ellen was daughter of Joseph and Catherine - although it would seem they are both illigitimate - Ellen had a sister mary c1886-1970

So, Mark, I think you have to buy Ellen's birth certificate to find out who her mother was:

Births Mar 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shuttleworth Ellen Bolton 8c 455

Just for reference

1891 England Census about William Edge
Name: William Edge
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Catherine Shuttleworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Halliwell, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Halliwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Bolton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Halliwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3102
Folio: 89
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Shuttleworth 34
Catherine Shuttleworth 42
Alice Ann Edge 12
Annie Edge 9
William Edge 6
Ellen Shuttleworth 6
Mary Shuttleworth 4

Exactly

Jackie

OK, so Ellen was not the daughter of Catherine Ainsworth but of Joseph's first wife Elizabeth?

Looking at the 1891 census it seems that Ellen and Mary are Josephs children and the others are Catherines

Indeed on closer inspection the other three Edge children all say stepson or stepdaughter

Jackie

Marriages Oct-Dec 1878
Lilley Elizabeth Chorley 8e 705
Shuttleworth Joseph Chorley 8e 705


Unless he adopted Catherine's children?

Twists and turns

Jackie