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Yes it is the same William Matthews in 1851 and 1861 - just need to do some more research to see if Emma Rayner is Emma Harman - name Harman was given on daughter Estella (my gt grandmother)'s birth cert. William's father, also William was a millwright engineer so if the marriage cert of William and Emma gives William snr's occupation as millwright engineer that will be too much of a co-incidence? possibly... Thanks everyone for the info.

Marriage:
groom's name: William Rayner
bride's name: Sarah Ann Thurlow
marriage date: 24 Dec 1848
marriage place: Scole, Norfolk, England
indexing project (batch) number: I07421-5
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 2262381

William Rayner in 1841:
Name: William Rayner
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Gender: Male
Where born: Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Scole
Hundred: Diss
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

View image

Registration district: Depwade
Sub-registration district: Diss
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 758
Book: 11
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Rayner 40
Robert Rayner 17
Ellen Rayner 16
Charles Rayner 14
William Rayner 12
Betsey Rayner 10
George Rayner 8
Sidney Rayner 5
Catherine Rayner 2

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 758; Book: 11; Civil Parish: Scole; County: Norfolk; Enumeration District: 1; ; Page: 1; Line: 16; GSU roll: 438852.

Marriage: Thomas Rayner & Susanna Valentine Smith 9/1/1821 Scole

Wife's Buriel just before 1841 census.
name: Susan Valentine Rayner
gender: Female
burial date: 13 Jan 1841
burial place: Scole, Norfolk, England
indexing project (batch) number: I07421-5
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 2262381

No Harman connections there.

I was looking at the 1901 census mentioned earlier and could not find Emma in 1911 but found this death:

Is this the death of your Jane?

Name: Emma Jane Matthews
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1907
Age at Death: 53
Registration district: Norwich
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 66

If this is the case, It might be worth ordering the death cert as it will give her maiden name and posible birth date.

Marriage:

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Marriages&RecordID=85784


Note: one of the witnesses was Elizabeth Rix

There are no details for the brides father so could it be that Emma was using her mother's name and father's name (Rayner and Harman) at various times

Thanks so much for the recent information. Deetortrainingnewfys - yes this is the death of Emma Jane and I will certainly look into the Rayner information you have provided. Chris - I've just had a look at the marriage and yes this is definitely William and Emma - thanks so much for your help - I can now go forward with this and research further on this side of the family.

A possibility????

There are these baptisms for Hannah Frances Rayner and Emma Jane Rayner in Longham Norfolk (Longham is about 2 miles from Gressenhall). Mother Frances Rayner no father recorded.

Think these are the birth registrations for the girls

Hannah Frances Rayner
Sept Q 1851
Mitford 13 222

Emma Jane Rayner
Mar Q 1854
Mitford 4b 269

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12596-71975-97?cc=1416598&wc=MMVP-7VD:804500147



I think that this is Hannah in the 1861 census and she is recorded as being born in Gressenhall and as your Emma Rayner/Harman was recorded as being born in Gressenhall maybe the above is her baptism.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=0&gsfn=hannah&gsln=rayner&sx=&f1=&f2=&f4=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f27=&f14=&f15=gress*&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1861&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gl=&gss=error&gst=&so=3


Also Emma & William had a daughter Frances Edith Matthews born 1881, possibly named after Grannie???

This looks promising, thanks Chris. Emma named one of her children Frances so looks like could be her family. There's also an Emma Jane Rayner born 1849 in Mitford, but this is more likely to be the one due to the age.

Thanks for your help.

Sorry Carole, I just finished editing about Frances as you posted