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Harry Lawrence was born in 1859, he married Nancy Carmichael in Hull in 1888, however on his marriage certificate it shows his father as being a Mining engineer, the line I have been following is one that shows his father as a lace agent. Harry was born in Nottingham. I have checked census records for 61/81/91/01 and 1911 but can find no trace of him on the 1871 census. His occupation is shown as a marine fireman on his marriage cert., maybe he was at sea, can any one help in locating him in 1871. thanks

Look for the rest of the family in 1871 - check whether he is mistranscribed - or simply not recorded.

I wouldn't have thought he'd be 'at sea' at the age of 12 - although 'never say never'

However, there is a vast difference between mining engineer and lace agent - have you taken a wrong turning somewhere?

Was his father apparently living when he married in 1888?

Purely for INFO

1901


Name: Harry Lawrence
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Nancy Lawrence
Gender: Male
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 246
Piece: 4504
Folio: 149
Page Number: 42
Household Members:
Name Age
Harry Lawrence 43
Nancy Lawrence 44
Edward Lawrence 20
Amy Lawrence 15
Lavinia Lawrence 8


He is not shown in the same household as Nancy in either 1891 or 1911

Harry in 1871, which you said you couldn't find. Father is a Lace Agent.

1871 census transcription details for: Mansfield Road, St Mary, Nottingham
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 3515
Folio: 53
Page: 21
Reg. District: Nottingham
Sub District: St Ann
Parish: St Mary
Enum. District: 13
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Nottingham
Address: Mansfield Road, St Mary, Nottingham
County: Nottinghamshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
LAWRENCE, Henry Head M 44 1827 Nottinghamshire
LAWRENCE, Rebecca Wife F 43 1828 Nottinghamshire
LAWRENCE, Emily Daughter F 19 1852 Nottinghamshire
LAWRENCE, Herbert Son M 16 1855 Nottinghamshire
LAWRENCE, Harry Son M 12 1859 Nottinghamshire
COE, Elizabeth Servant F 17 1854 Derbyshire

In 1901 he had a 20 year old son but you say he married in 1888? Was he previously married?

Also on the 91 census there's a daughter Jane born 1877.

in 1881 he was a reporter
LAWRENCE, Henry Head Married M 54 1827 Lace Agent
Nottingham VIEW
LAWRENCE, Rebecca Wife Married F 53 1828 Wife
Nottingham VIEW
LAWRENCE, Henry Son Single M 21 1860 Newspaper Reporter
Nottingham VIEW
LILO, Lillian G Grand Daughter Single F 5 1876
Nottingham VIEW

Piece: 3365

Folio: 73

Page: 10

Registration District: Nottingham

Civil Parish: Nottingham St Mary

Municipal Borough:

Address: 106, Victoria Ter Queens Walk, Nottingham St Mary

County: Nottinghamshire

It looks like he married Nancy Shaw in 1888. Was she previously married?

Marriages Jun 1888 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lawrence Harry Hull 9d 322
Shaw Nancy Hull 9d 322
STRAKER George Fox Hull 9d 322
Watson Ann Hull 9d 322

Nancy's first marriage?

Marriages Mar 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carmichael Nancy Hull 9d 331
Guy Mary Ann Hull 9d 331
Shaw George Hull 9d 331
Speechley Robert Hull 9d 331

Nancy & first family in 1881:

1881 England Census
about Edward Shaw Name: Edward Shaw
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Shaw
Mother's name: Nancy Shaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Kingston-Upon-Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 8 Chapels Court
Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 42
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4773
Folio: 129
Page Number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
George Shaw 25
Nancy Shaw 23
James Shaw 4
Francis Shaw 2
Edward Shaw
Wm. Carmichel 15

4 year old James is actually Jane, daughter. Edward is 3 months old. Wm. Carmichel is listed as boarder.

? Possible death of George Shaw
Civil Registration event: Death

Name: SHAW, George
Registration district: Hull
County: Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1887
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death: 31
Volume no: 9D
Page no: 170

Keith you've given us his father's occupation in your opening post - what was the father's name?

For info, on the 1901 Harry was a Stationary Engine Driver and son Edward was a Stone Mason.

It seems quite likely that the 1871 & 1881 with father Henry the Lace Agent aren't the right ones.

EDIT: See the CWGC death below, it seems they ARE the right census.

Found this on FamilySearch - confirms the correct father's name:

England, Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: Harry Lawrence
groom's birth date: 1858
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 30
bride's name: Nancy Shaw
bride's birth date: 1857
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 31
marriage date: 13 May 1888
marriage place: Hull, York, England
groom's father's name: William Henry Lawrence
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: James Carmichael
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status: Single
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status: Widowed
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M01478-8
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1657074
reference number: 1715 v3 p191 cn382

Source Citation
"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NN34-FJJ : accessed 23 June 2012), Harry Lawrence, 1888.

Many thanks for the information so far, forgot to mention fathers name, it was William Henry Lawrence, may have made an error on the census date, it is 1891 that I cant find him on. It is possible that I am on the wrong line as I agree there is a big difference between a lace agent and a mining engineer. really confused with this guy, to make things worse he died as a result of enemy torpedo during the 1st WW, his body was never recovered from the ship he was in, so no death certificate, also I dont think there are any navy records available for this period. gets a bit frustrating.

From CWGC http://www.cwgc.org

LAWRENCE, HARRY

Rank: Fireman
Date of Death: 21/05/1917
Age: 57
Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine
"Jupiter" (Hull)
Panel Reference
Memorial TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

Additional Information:
Son of Henry and Rebecca Lawrence (Formerly Selby). Husband of Nancy Laurence, of 17, Grosvenor Terrace, Grosvenor St., Hull. Born at Nottingham.

Keith, if that is the death that you're referring to then it seems to be the one who is the son of the lace merchant and not the mining engineer. However, the wife's name appears to be correct.

Just so we can be 100% sure about which direction to go in, who are you working back from?

my grandmother, lavinia lawrence, daughter of Harry and Nancy.

I'm honestly starting to think that there was a mistake with his father's occupation on the marriage certificate. The CWGC death I posted ties him to the Henry and Rebecca already posted, but Henry is consistently a lace agent, as far back as 1861:

LAWRENCE, Henry Head Married M 34 1827 Lace Agent Nottingham
LAWRENCE, Rebecca Wife Married F 34 1827 London
LAWRENCE, Emily Daughter Unmarried F 9 1852 Scholar Nottingham
LAWRENCE, Herbert Son Unmarried M 6 1855 Nottingham
LAWRENCE, Henry Son M 1 1860 Nottingham
BUCK, Elizabeth Visitor Widow F 79 1782 Market Deeping

Piece: 2460 Folio: 77 Page: 6
Registration District: Nottingham
Civil Parish: St Mary
Municipal Borough: Nottingham

Address: 14, Shelton Street, St Mary, Nottingham County: Nottinghamshire

Just as a matter of interest, what was Nancy's father's occupation on the certificate? The registrar couldn't have mixed them up, could they?

I am beginning to believe they may have put the wrong occupation down, Nancy's father was a Keelman, where could I get inof on his naval records from? I know he was a marine fireman and he wore a petty officers uniform to his wedding, these records would show his parents would they not?

Keith, I really don't know if naval records would name his parents - you could look on the National Archives website. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/

What are your thoughts on that naval death I posted above - that names his parents?