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Joan - you say Elizabeth died 1st April - which year?

You're saying she may have been born 1892 - the census records show she must have been a lot older than that.

If we can just get the facts absolutely clear then we may be able to start looking for her family.

pm from Joan:

Many thanks for finding my family. I will give you what I know. Some pf the following info came either by Ancestry . Middleton and Woods undertakers and certs.

Elizabeth Chivers could have been born in 1892
Death cert no HC924578 - no 376. 9th Feb 1913 John Whittle [my grandfather] 153 Castle Hill Rd. Hindley age 61.

1st April cert HC924577.Elizabeth Whitle nee Chivers [age 80] died ward 4 Upholland Rs. Billinge and Winstanley.[same address]Widow of John Whittle

Birth cert - CM874895 no 121. 19th June 1900 same address. Joseph Whittle [my father] His father was John Whittle. Mother Elizabeth Whittle formaly Chivers

Marrage cert AB158439. no. 241. 8th Sept 1945 Joseph Whittle [ my father married my mother] Margaret Markland at St. Benedict's church Hindley Wigan.

Death cert FC591090 [my father] Joseph Whittle 30th Dec 1960. in Wythenshaw Hospital Wythenshaw. address then 185 Sandy Lane Hindley.Wigan.

Alice 1st wife of John Whittle died 5-12-1896 aged 44 yrs. and lived at 9 Peter St. Marshnrook, Westhaughton .

John and Alice had Rueben died 1953 aged 61.

Jane died 21-12-1963 aged 81. was 14 in 1911 cencus.
Ambrose in 1911 was 15 yrs old
Living at 153 Castle Hill Rd. in 1911 cencus was the following info
John Whittle age 47. Elizabeth age 35 Thomas age 15, Reuben age 10 Abram AGE 7 then Joseph age 9 months [my dad]

I haven't a clue when the daughter of John and Elizabeth died.
Many thanks for all your trouble. There musy be some next of kin out there. Regards Joan.
That is all I have for now.

(Have asked for replies on here).

Just in case there is a link to the name Jeves. Could be a relative or maybe
Elizabeth changed her name.

Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911
about Bridget Jyves Or Iyves Name: Bridget Jyves Or Iyves
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1877
Birth Place: Inchaguire Or Inchaquire, Kildare, Ireland
Father's Name: James Jyves Or Iyves
Father's Birth Place: Inchaguire Or Inchaquire
Mother's name: Rose Dugan Jyves Or Iyves
FHL Film Number: 255989

Vera

I'd looked at Chevers and Cheevers etc Vera......hadn't thought of Jeves!

As you say though, no marriage with those names :-(


We could do with some feedback from the OP....will send a pm. :-)

Wonder if Chivers is a mispronunciation for Jeves. However, still can't find a marriage between Whittle and Jeves. This was an 1897 registration on Lancashire bmd

WHITTLE Elizabeth Hindley Wigan & Leigh JEVES HNDL/130/96

Vera

MC - does this help..........from my friend....


"Looking a Hindley Cemetery this man John Whittle was buried 12th February 1913 with his wife Alice - grave B4-411 (CofE)

Alice died at 9 Peter Street, Marsh Brook in 1896 - Burial 5th December wife of John of Westhoughton.

At the time of Johns death he is living at 153 Castle Hill - which was his residence in 1901 I will also look at 1911 if you like?

It seems to me he possibly didn't marry this Elizabeth from Dublin who he is with in 1901 as there is no listing anywhere of a marriage to a Chivers, not even on Ancestry."


I have told my friend that we have the 1911.


Cx

Search me! ;-)

Cynthia, I'm thinking that Elizabeth might possibly have been married before and was perhaps a widow when she married John Whittle?

She was quite a bit older than Joan originally indicated so wasn't exactly a child bride.

Of course they may not have actually married.

I would suggest Joan gets one of the children's birth certificates to see what it says about former names.

Where did Joan get the surname Chivers from?

Something doesn't add up here. Why can't we find a Chivers/Whittle marriage?

I go past St. Benedicts several times a week and have a friend who volunteers at Wigan History shop. I'll have a word and see if she can find the marriage next time she goes in.

Cx

I was wondering about this for Alice's death:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: Alice Whittle
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1896
Age at Death: 44
Registration district: Bolton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 279

Bolton covers Westhoughton which is where Joan said John and Elizabeth had lived.

This looks like Joseph's birth.

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1900

WHITTLE Joseph Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/140/121


The only Elizabeth Whittle birth registered in Hindley in 1898 has the mother's maiden name as Liptrot - so not ours.


I may be muddying the waters but.....

Baptisms: 3 Jun 1885 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Thomas Whittle - Child of John Whittle & Alice
Born: 10 May 1885
Abode: Marsh Brook
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: W.Geary Knocker, Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1880 - 1886, Page 157, Entry 1249
Source: LDS Film 93748



Baptisms: 2 Aug 1891 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Reuben Whittle - Child of John Whittle & Alice
Born: 27 May 1891
Abode: Westhoughton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: C.J.Buckmaster Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1886 - 1893, Page 150, Entry 1200
Source: LDS Film 93748


Baptisms: 4 Apr 1894 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Abraham Whittle - Child of John Whittle & Alice
Born: 18 Feb 1894
Abode: Castle Hill
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: Fredk. H.J. Barham, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1893 - 1901, Page 49, Entry 389
Source: LDS Film 93748



Reuben's marriage - father deceased. Ince is just down the road from Hindley.


Marriage: 2 Feb 1924 St Mary, Ince, Lancashire, England
Reuben Whittle - 30 Colliery Surface Hand Bachelor of 354 Warrington Rd.
Clara Atherton - 24 Spinster of 547 Warrington Rd.
Groom's Father: John Whittle Whittle, deceased, Collier
Bride's Father: George Atherton, Collier
Witness: Frederick Atherton; Esther Jane Gregory
Married by Banns by: S. Bryson Vicar
Register: Marriages 1915 - 1927, Page 189, Entry 378
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives



Can't find a death for Alice Whittle though :-S

I'm not seeing a marriage for an Elizabeth Chivers in that timescale, can a fresh pair of eyes see anything?

Joan, you said Elizabeth died in Billinge Hospital - is that the mother or the daughter? If it's Elizabeth from Dublin could you tell us when? We can check her age on the death record.

She seems to be older than you thought.

Elizabeth's age varies dramatically in the 1901!

WHITTLE, John Head Married M 47 1854 Coal Hewer Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 35 1866 Ireland Dublin
WHITTLE, Thomas Son Single M 15 1886 No Occupation Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Reuben Son Single M 10 1891 Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Abram Son Single M 7 1894 Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Elizabeth Daughter F 3 1898 Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Joseph Son M 0 (9 MOS) 1901 Hindley, Lancashire

Piece: 3561 Folio: 148 Page: 32
Registration District: Wigan
Civil Parish: Hindley

Address: 153, Castle Hill Road, Hindley County: Lancashire

(It's my guess that she added a few years onto her age on this one to minimise the age difference between her and John).

This 1911 looks likely:

WHITTLE, John Head Married M 56 1855 Colliery Dataller - Underground Lancashire Hindley
WHITTLE, Eliza Wife Married14 years F 38 1873 Dublin Ireland
WHITTLE, Reuben Son Single M 21 1890 Colliery Drawer Haulier Lancashire Hindley
WHITTLE, Abraham Son Single M 17 1894 Colliery Drawer Haulier Lancashire Hindley
WHITTLE, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 13 1898 School Lancashire Hindley
WHITTLE, Joseph Son Single M 11 1900 School Lancashire Hindley

RG number: RG14 Piece: 23030 Reference: RG14PN23030 RG78PN1346 RD458 SD4 ED15 SN94
Registration District: Wigan
Sub District: Hindley
Enumeration District: 15
Parish: Hindley

Address: 153 Castle Hill Hindley County: Lancashire

** The image says Reuben and Abraham were by former marriage.

Eliza had only had the two children (Elizabeth and Joseph)

Could this be Joseph's death (to help us get our bearings)

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006
Name: Joseph Whittle
Birth Date: abt 1899
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1959
Age at Death: 60
Registration district: Ashton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 99

Hello Joan, two things:

1 - Could you check Joseph's birth year?

2 - You've marked this thread as answered so people may not realise you still need help. Go to your very first post at the top of the thread and there is a pink button that says "mark this as unanswered" - click on that. Then people will start looking to see what you need.

pm from Joan:

Elizabeth married John whittle at st. Benedict,s r/c hindley Wigan. This must have been late 1880's. They had two children Elizabeth and my father Joseph . Joseph was born 1990 and died 1959 in wythenshaw hospital. Elizabeth died in billinge hospital. Hope this helps

Sorry everyone but it should have read Elizabeth chivers. :-S

Hello Joan,

Actually, Chives isn't that much of an unusual name - there are 178 matches in trees on this site. It may be worthwhile putting the names you are researching into the Search Trees box to see if anyone else has them in their tree.

If you find a connection, you can contact the tree owner.





ps. I'll send Joan one of my messages on how to return :-D

Nothing coming up for Chives on the 1901 or 1911 Irish, nor on the http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/index.html

what does it say on her marriage cert? or birth certs?