Find Ancestors

Hi

I am after some help tracing my grandfather's maternal line. I think I know the names of his parents but there seems to be some confusion which I'll explain in a moment. Basically, I want to know if I have the right mother and grandparents.

My grandfather's name is John Robert Thorpe DOB 23 Oct 1919 in Barnsley, Yorkshire (Died July 1981). Mother's maiden name is listed as Wilcock.

He has 3 siblings - Leslie (Male DOB 5 Oct 1925), Ivy Doreen (DOB 18 Mar 1916) and Joe Ben (5 Feb 1914) All show Wilcock as mother's maiden name on birth records.

I believe that his father is Thomas Teesdale Thorpe (DOB OCT 1891) and his mother is Evelina Annie Wilcock (DOB 31 OCT 1892). I then think her father is Joe Ben Wilcock (DOB June 1860) and mother as Annie Lees (DOB March 1860) (married in 1882).

The confusion arises from family recollections. My gran insists that my grandfather always said his Grandma Senior helped raise him. I recently made contact with another person tracing this tree via Ivy Doreen who also states she has the same issues as family photos refer to the surname Senior.

I have found no record of the Wilcock family in any census but I have found a record of a Senior family in the 1911 and 1891 census. Dates fit with both Joe Ben and Annie's DOB's There is a daughter name Evelyn A Senior whose age fits with that of Evelina Annie Wilcock's DOB.

There is also a daughter with the name Ivy May Senior whose DOB is around 1897. I found an Ivy May Wilcock with a DOB of 1897 in Barnsley who married Thomas Peach in 1915. They had a daughter Ruby Peach in 1917.

My grandad had a cousin named Ruby Peach.

I think it seems more and more likely that these two families are one and the same, however Evelina Annie's birth index has her name as Wilcock. So could they have started out as Wilcock, name changed to Senior and back again to Wilcock ?

I cannot find any trace of the other children listed in the Senior's household as either a Senior or Wilcock.

I would be really grateful if someone could take a look and tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree or not ?

If I'm right - why would they name change in those days and how would I find that information out for sure ?

Sorry for such a long post but I figured the more info the better :-)

Andrea

What certs do you have ?

I don't have any physical ones just the index's atm. I am planning on ordering my grandads actual birth certificate this week.

I am pretty sure it will list Evelina Annie as his mother - my confusion (and that of others) is where the Senior surname comes in to it.

1911 do you think this is the family but no name correction has been done on Ancestry

Name: Joe Ben Lenior
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Thurgland, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Royston
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: Lee Lane Royston Nr Barnsley
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Plate - Layers
Registration district: Barnsley
Registration District Number: 507
Sub-registration district: Darton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 27550
Household Members: Name Age
Joe Ben Lenior 50
Annie Lenior 50
Norman Lenior 21
Evelyn Lenior 18
Gurturde Lenior 16
Ivy Lenior 14
Gladys Lenior 9
Harold Harwood 2

Gertrude is actually Ethel G


Births Dec 1894 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Willcock Ethel Gertrude Barnsley 9c 194



Name: Norman Harold Senior
Parish: Royston, St John the Baptist
Baptism Date: 18 Feb 1894
Father's Name: Joe Ben Senior
Mother's name: Annie Senior

Really strange about this surname

Name: Ethel Gertrude Senior
Parish: Royston, St John the Baptist
Baptism Date: 16 Feb 1896
Father's Name: Joe Ben Senior
Mother's name: Annie Senior

This is Joe Ben in 1861


Name: Joe B Wilcock
Age: 10 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Grandson-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Thurgoland, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Thurgoland
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Wortley
Sub-registration district: Cawthorne
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 19
Piece: 3453
Folio: 32
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Michael Home 56
Tamer Home 54
Joshua Home 21
James Horne 16
Sarah Ann Horne 14
Ben Horne 10
Joe B Wilcock 10 Months

Married 29 years in 1911



Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1882 (>99%)
DUNN Peter Burnley 8e 876
LEES Annie Preston 8e 876
MARTINDALE Mary Alice Preston 8e 876
Topping Richard Preston 8e 876
Wilcock Joe Ben Preston 8e 876

and here's his probate and death


Name: Joe Ben Wilcock
Probate Date: 8 Dec 1939
Death Date: 23 Jun 1939
Death Place: Yorkshire, England
Registry: Wakefield

Name: Joe B Wilcock
Birth Date: abt 1860
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1939
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Staincross
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9c
Page: 260


can't find him in 1871 or 1881...in 1882 he was still Willcock (marriage) and then became Senior in 1891mmmmmmm

Joe Ben marriage...father William

Name: Joe Ben Willcock
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1861
Age: 21
Father's Name: William Willcock
Spouse's Name: Annie Lees
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Father's Name: Peter Lees
Marriage Date: 9 Apr 1882
Marriage Place: Preston, Lancashire, England

This is the family next door to baby ben in 1861


Name: William Senior
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Hepworth, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Thurgoland
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Wortley
Sub-registration district: Cawthorne
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Piece: 3453
Folio: 32
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
William Senior 31
Guy Senior 10
Alfred Senior 5
View
Original
Record

View original image

Thanks for the 1861 census info - that will definately be very useful going even further back.

Interesting about the family next door - this Senior thing is driving me bonkers lol.

I haven't checked this out fully, but so far I have (from familysearch)
Michael Horn married Mary Wilcock in 1833 in Silkstone (nr.Thurgoland)

Maybe she had a daughter before he married her. So the daughter would have the surname Wilcock. This daughter had Joe Ben when she was unmarried. Later moved in with William Senior who lived next door to the family in 1861.

So Joe Ben would have been brought up as a Senior, but his real surname was Wilcock.

On the 1881 census William Senior's wife is Esther b.1837 Cawthorne.

familysearch shows Esther Wilcock bap.1838 in Cawthorne - parents Benjamin and Tamar Wilcock

I was expecting it to be Mary not Tamar!

So, Joe Ben's mother was Esther Wilcock (daughter of Benjamin and Tamar Wilcock). Esther later moved in with William Senior so Joe Ben grew up using the name Senior, although he was actually born with the name Wilcock.

If you type in Joeben Senior b.1861 Thurgoland, Yorkshire for the 1871 census, you can see the family together.

Hmm I'm still confused.

And again this is all on the assumption Joe Ben Wilcock and Joe Ben Senior are one and the same. It also doesn't explain why he would start as a Wilcock, change to a Senior and then back again to a Wilcock by the time Evelina gets married.

Makes for interesting reading though :)

I am even wondering if the photos and the comments relating to "Grandma Senior" could even be as simple as just referring to an elderly family friend rather than an actual relation perhaps - in this case, possibly the neighbours.

Actually Tamer/Tamar does kind of make sense. In the 1891 census for Joe Ben Senior / Annie Senior - there is a Tamar P aged 4. Not the most common of names I expect and they did like to pass on family names a lot more back then.

I then came across baptism records for a Tamar Priscilla on 12 Sept 1886 with parents Joe Ben and Annie Wilcock. This is in a Liverpool register - possible address 4 Gorse ? Street.

The listing in the 1891 census for Tamar P shows a birthplace of Liverpool.

I think it's way too much of a coincidence that the Seniors/Wilcocks are not the same family - what I don't get is why the switching of surname.

1861 - Wilcock in census
1882 - marriage to Annie - listed as Wilcock
1886 - listed as Wilcock from Tamar's baptism
1891 - listed as Senior in census
1901 - listed as Senior in census
1913 - listed as Wilcock on Evelina's wedding cert.

Does this seem right ? The switch to Senior seems to be around his late 20's and continues till he's at least 40.

Joe Ben and Annie had a daughter called Tamar as well (on family search) and the grandmother in 1861 is called Tamar...so does that mean Benjamin Willcock died and she remarried to Michael Home/Horne...hey presto

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1859 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Giles John Wortley 9c 263
Hague Ann Wortley 9c 263
Horne Michael Wortley 9c 263
Horne Michal Wortley 9c 263
Horne Micha_l Wortley 9c 263
Wilcock Tamar Wortley 9c 263

:-)

That explains the grandson "in-law" as well because Joe Ben was not HIS grandson...he was his wife's grandson...

But why say William Willcock was his father on marriage? (if indeed it does)....

I'd get his birth certificate for sure...if you could find the reference

Tamar Clarkson 1st married a Benjamin Wilcock in 1833 Parish of High Hoyland according to the 2nd marriage her father was George Clarkson.
Regards Carol