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thanks reggie. appreciate all your hard work . :-)

1871

Name: Joseph Holden
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Holden
Mother's name: Sarah Holden
Gender: Male
Where born: Horbury, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Habergham Eaves
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Burnley
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Household schedule number: 208
Piece: 4149
Folio: 147
Page Number: 42
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Holden 27..........born Dewsbury
Sarah Holden 24..........born Burnley
Joseph Holden 4
Robert Holden 2
William Holden 1

Of course enumerators made mistakes........but the difference between a 9-year old boy and a 90 year old widower is unlikely to have been one of them

PLUS - the surname was HOLDER

Slatter is far from uncommon - particularly in the neighbouring County of Gloucestershire.

Just a thought...do you have the marriage cert for Joseph and Rosa? There may be a clue if an actual address is listed for him.

Maureen

Thankyou for the slatter stuff reggie. Unusual name. Sounds a bit jewish maybe? I think the person who tracked joseph down to oxford had not seen the 1911, well, did not mention it anyway. Only the 1901. But is it possible that the enumerator made a mistake ? Has anyone known of other mistakes?
I will shut up now, before you tell me off for believing in my gut instinct rather than solid proof. I know, its not the correct thing to do. I wont put it down as official, just keep it in my head , until i find joseph and maybe thomas bradley holden on the 1901 census somehwere else. :-D

Yes, did see that joseph and thomas holder may not be correct people. Thats possibly true. Can anyone spot them anywhere on the 1901 at all.? And i just noticed that thomas bradley holden enlisted in burnley. So he must have gone back home from lytham after 1911. I am still thinking, even despite details to the contrary, that those two in 1901 are them. Slim chance i know, and it looks wrong. But its not unknown for the enumerators to make a mistake. But at least i know where they are in 1911 and then that thomas moved back to burnley to enlist.
So it still remains a partial mystery, for ten years. :-)

1871

Name: Rosa Slatter
Age: 7 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Arthur E Slatter
Mother's name: Mary A Slatter
Gender: Female
Where born: Oxfordshire, England
Civil parish: St Ebbe
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Oxford
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Oxford
Sub-registration district: Oxford
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 79
Piece: 1439
Folio: 64
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur E Slatter 42
Mary A Slatter 37
Arthur E Slatter 14
Thomas H Slatter 11
Frank Slatter 9
William Slatter 7
Frederick Slatter 3
Rosa Slatter 7 Months
Martha Collcutt 30
Elizabeth Collcutt 30
Sarah E Norris 36

1901

Name: Rosa Slaker
[Rosa Slatter]
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Mary Ann Slatter
Gender: Female
Where born: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
Civil parish: St Ebbe
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Oxford
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Oxford
Sub-registration district: Oxford
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1168
Folio: 93
Page Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Ann Slatter 57
Frank Slatter 28
Fanny Slatter 26
Fred K Slaker 22
Rosa Slaker 20
Mark Slaker 17
Frank Slaker 8
Samuel Slaker 7

Thanks guys. Youve been great. Im still inclined to think that thomas holder is thomas bradley holden aged nine, unless someone finds him on a census for 1901. Because he with his dads parents in lytham in 1911 and some of his children with rosa have been born in lytham. I reckopn its just mistranscribed after wards so the enumerator puts widower as he needs some kind of status for thomas and thinks he is ninety by what is written down. Unless, that is not them in 1901,?B ut they are lodging with a telephone telegraph person, and though it says joseph born in burnley, it is a big coincidence. I reckon that he took thomas with him when he left , for whatever reason. And he seemingly spent time with him in lytham though he did bigamously marry someone else. And his dad put him on the oxford war memorial so they seem to have been close.
its a mystery?? There is photo of him on the burnley in the great war website. Its a very interesting story. thankyou for all your help . youve been amazing as usual.

Thanks guys. Youve been great. Im still inclined to think that thomas holder is thomas bradley holden aged nine, unless someone finds him on a census for 1901. Because he with his dads parents in lytham in 1911 and some of his children with rosa have been born in lytham. I reckopn its just mistranscribed after wards so the enumerator puts widower as he needs some kind of status for thomas and thinks he is ninety by what is written down. Unless, that is not them in 1901,?B ut they are lodging with a telephone telegraph person, and though it says joseph born in burnley, it is a big coincidence. I reckon that he took thomas with him when he left , for whatever reason. And he seemingly spent time with him in lytham though he did bigamously marry someone else. And his dad put him on the oxford war memorial so they seem to have been close.
its a mystery?? There is photo of him on the burnley in the great war website. Its a very interesting story. thankyou for all your help . youve been amazing as usual.

he is DEF aged 90 on the 1901 census and a widower . no occupation as you may expect

Shirley, did you not read the previous posts? The Thomas on the 1901 census was a 90 year old widower.

The 1901in St Ebbe district is certainly NOT your people

Name: Thomas Bradley Holden
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 6 Feb 1892
Christening Date: 2 Mar 1892
Christening Place: Habergham Eaves, Lancashire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: Joseph Holden
Mother's name: Martha Ann

Name: Thomas Bradley Holden
Birth Place: Burnley
Death Date: 23 Aug 1917
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Burnley
Rank: Private
Regiment: Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)
Battalion: 10th Battalion
Number: 13674
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

I am not certain thomas holder/holden in 1901 is the son. does it say relationships or where born? Its just that in 1917 thomas bradley holden was named on the war memorial in oxford , and i think also in burnley he appears too. So maybe joseph took thomas for a while? Who knows? And i dont think there ia any sign of thomas bradley holden living with his mother martha ann holden nee bradley in burnley in 1901. She, martha, is apparently living with her brother arthur bradley and family in burnley on the 1901. Thomas would have been nine by then. So it has been assumed that the enumerator made a mistake by putting 90 and it should have been nine?? As i have not seen the film for myself yet, i am not sure this would be correct.
Thanks for finding them on the 1911, thats really very helpful

Name: Thomas Bradley Holden
Age in 1911: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation to Head: Grandson
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Burnley, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Lytham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 26 Albert St Cherley
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Shipyard Driller
Registration district: Fylde
Registration District Number: 477
Sub-registration district: Lytham
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 230
Piece: 25387
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Holden 63
Sarah Holden 62
Thomas Bradley Holden 19

And the image is HoldeR

The Thomas Holder on the 1901 census is 90 years old and is a widower so not Joseph's son.

Marriages Jun 1901 (>99%)
Hitchman Jessie Oxford 3a 1758
Holden Joseph Oxford 3a 1758
Slatter Rosa Oxford 3a 1758
TURNER Albert Oxford 3a 1758