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This doesn't relate directly to your query, but these seem to be Elizabeth's elder children in 1841, not sure where 'Elizabeth Leech' comes in as Elizabeth is Elizabeth Myatt in 1851, with a 9 yr old Myatt daur, and according to family search Elizabeth Hodgetts married John Worsey Myatt.

Census 1841:

Name: Elizabeth Leech
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Female
Civil parish: Handworth With Soho
Hundred: South Offlow
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address:


Registration district: West Bromwich
Sub-registration district: Handsworth

Piece: 980
Book: 1
Folio: 23
Page Number: 3

Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Leech 30
James Myate 13
John Myate 11
Elizabeth Myate 8
Thomas Myate 6

You're right, the marriage register does say he was of Handsworth, Staffordshire, so that potential connection still holds true

Kucinta, you are correct, the marriage took place in London - I think when i first looked at this ages (years!) ago, someone found the Pallots entry for me which mentioned Handsworth (as James' residence) and this threw me off course.
Now, off you go to watch Downton ... !
jan

Guess I should be drummed off this site for my shameless lack of dedication... :-(

Was the marriage 'at Handsworth', a major part of the 'Handsworth connection' or is it immaterial it was actually at London?

My gut feeling is there is some mileage in your theory, but the difficuly is confirming it one way or another

Where is your sense of priorities woman??
I am absent tomorrow as on one of my all-day shifts that i adore so much, oh joy.
Thanks everyone for your input.
jan x

One slight query - you said James married Constance at Handsworth, but the marriage seems to be in the LMA records?

I'm afraid I'm going to be sidetracked by Downton Abbey at this point...

You are right. I suppose it's important not to lose track of the original query, which was to see if my notion that the Maria's 1841 and 1851 are the same person holds water. What do you think?
Christina too, can't thank you enough you clever clogs!
Jan

Yes, you did, apart from Christina's brilliant breakthrough with the 1851 census.

The rest of it was just building on and substantiating your original findings further.

Maria might prove a harder nut to crack though!

Thanks Kucinta, that's fantastic. Must admit never thought I'd ever track them down. Well, strictly speaking, I didn't did I!
jan x

Have pmed you the image of the 1851 transcript.

Thank you very much for 1851 Christina and Kucinta - I don't believe this is on Ancestry, I am assuming one of the damaged pages has been retrieved.
And you have sorted out the Pfenders too it seems Kucinta! Thanks so much.

Do you have any opinion re. Maria, while I have you at my disposal?! :-D :-D :-D :-D

Jan xx

Harry Malleson also a witness at this marriage:

Name: Jean Michael Pfender
Spouse Name: Marianne Françoise Baatard
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 May 1829
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Register

So definitely looking like the Pfenders came to England, and Constance almost certainly met James over here.

Source of one of those Malleson witnesses?

Name: Marie Francois Pfender
Spouse Name: Harry Malleson
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Dec 1816
Parish: Chelsea St Luke
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type: Parish Register

Another transcription of Christina's 1851 find:

Census 1851:

Address: 4, Aytoun Street, Manchester
County: Lancashire

MYALL, James Head Married M 51 1800 EngineerBirmingham
MYALL, Constance Wife Married F 49 1802 Litherland, Lancashire
MYALL, Rstemi Son Unmarried M 21 1830 Warehouse Man
Litherland, Lancashire
MYALL, Harriet Dau Unmarried F 19 1832 Litherland, Lancashire
ROBINSON, Illegible Visitor Unmarried M 21 1830 Warehouse Man
?one, North?
MCGINNES, Alice Servant Unmarried F 13 1838 Domestic Servant
Manchester


Note The image is not the original census , but a typed transcript.

They are under Myall here...


http://www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk/1851page.php?book=3B&transcript=78&districtname=Manchester,%20London%20Road&subdistrict=M3

Good thinking Jim. James obviously married well didn't he!
Jan

Perhaps they were abroad in 1851

Thanks Mary & Dea. What you say makes total sense. Mind you, it makes no difference regarding James' parentage does it? The relative has argued that it is unusual to have no relatives as witnesses - not so, and in any case it proves nothing re/ whether he is related to us or not.

James was an engineer in 1841, and interestingly Thomas Myatt (his possible nephew) was an engine fitter, though whether this had any bearing I am unsure. Thomas worked on the railways so I did vaguely wonder if James did the same, hence his moving around quite a bit, though he ended up as an engine minder in a cotton factory by 1861. We'll never know.

Never found James 1851 - I asked for help some while back, but I think came to the conclusion the census met a sorry fate along with others for Manchester!

I shall stick to my original theory for now I think.

Jan :-)

There were several witnesses:

Harry Malleson, Agnes Marie Malleson, Henriette Pfender and Louise Pugnou ? (??Bugnon) >>

I agree with Mary that it was probably her coming over here as a Professor of languages and then they met here rather that James travelling over there?

Dea x