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Potty ~ Sorry I never got back to you. I'd not realised there were more messages.

Which John did you mean? John WHYATT? or John MCLUSKY? John WHYATT arrived aboard Peruvian in July 1887 with wife Margaret & 5 kiddies in tow. Name on manifest was WYATT. Attempts to revert back to WHYATT were in vain, hence we are now WYATTs.

John MCLUSKY I couldn't find after 1881. Two of same name died in workhouses but only names given with no further details, so I had no idea if one was our Margaret's father or not. Would be super if him who came over .. 'cause that might mean son John came as well! May be easier to find over here, especially if in Halifax area.

Many thanks ~ Trena

mgnv ~ Sorry for the late response, I just saw this Bedford data. Thank you I do have all the Halifax data. Thomas born 1894 is my grandfather. Janet the eldest girl was born in Glasgow; Nancy born Stockport & James #2 born Derbys (have all BMDs). Robert was born Glasgow too. Although known as eldest child/brother, he was in fact a 1C (parents Mary MCLUSKY & James MCKENZIE who wed a few months after his birth - Mum died in 1880), born 29 February (according to SP as well) 1877. The eldest living son was in fact Joseph born Glasgow 1879. Two babies, James #1 & John #1 born / died Glasgow 1876-1878.

James #2 WWl did survive to come home. He did not stay in the army like his brother John #2 born 1892 Halifax who stayed in the Army (RCRs) after WWl, retiring 1946. I grew up with him nearby, plus 3 of his granddaughters (Kingston Ontario).

My thanks to all who have helped sort my family out. It has been much appreicated. Trena

The images of James's attestation papers are gotten by a search at:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php
Name: WYATT, JAMES
Regimental number(s): 282200
Reference: RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 10616 - 40
Date of Birth: 04/08/1883

No hit at CWGC

For ref:
1891 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148116-00464.pdf
1891 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148116-00466.pdf
[image order's gotten muddled]

You should look up 1901 at http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/index.html
There's contact info for a g grandaur of Margt given there

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: NS HALIFAX (#33)
Subdistrict: Bedford Basin H Page 7
37 51 Wyatt Margaret F Head W Mar 24 1857 44
38 51 Wyatt James M Son S Aug 17 1883 17
39 51 Wyatt Mary F Daughter S Dec 26 1887 13
40 51 Wyatt John M Son S Aug 18 1892 8
41 51 Wyatt Thomas M Son S May 19 1894 6
42 51 Wyatt Alice F Daughter S Aug 13 1895 5
43 51 Wyatt Victoria F Daughter S May 7 1897 3

S1 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z001/z000040504.pdf
S2 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z001/z000040495.pdf
[addy just=Bedford - Margt & Jas immig 1889 - rest pob=NS]

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: NS HALIFAX (#33)
Subdistrict: Bedford Basin H Page 13
44 106 Greenman Benjamin M Head M May 3 1851 49
45 106 Greenman Isabelle F Wife M Jun 26 1866 34
46 106 Greenman Anna F Daughter S Apr 6 1887 14
47 106 Greenman Charlie M Son S May 26 1890 10
48 106 Greenman Ruth F Daughter S Jul 17 1899 1
49 106 Wyatt Janet F Domestic S Mar 27 1881 20

S1 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z001/z000040510.pdf
S2 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z001/z000040496.pdf
[again addy=Bedford]


1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Nova Scotia / Halifax / 1 Bedford poll district / page 11
26 91 Wyatt Margaret F Head W Mar 1857 54
27 91 Wyatt James M Son S Aug ? 27
28 91 Wyatt Thomas M Son S May 1894 17
29 91 Wyatt Alice F Daughter S Aug 1896 15
30 91 Wyatt Annie F Daughter S Mar 1897 14

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001969941.pdf

1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Nova Scotia / Halifax / 1 Bedford poll district / page 11
1 87 Nelson Charles M Head M Mar 1873 38
2 87 Nelson Janet F Wife M Mar 1881 30
3 87 Nelson Charles M Son S Nov 1902 8
4 87 Nelson Olive F Daughter S Mar 1904 7
5 87 Nelson Francis F Daughter S Nov 1907 3

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001969941.pdf
[immig not given]



Re: "On Canadian census, 1891-1911, my great-gran's birth date is down as 27th March 1857, Daughter who was informant on d/c 14th February 1943 Bedford Halifax Co Nova Scotia,, put down same birth date. "
1901 says 24/3/1857 and d.cert says 24/3/1855

I checked https://novascotiagenealogy.com/
Mary & Thos's births are there, as are Janet, John, Thomas, James, Alice (to Ronald, not Edward), Robt's marrs.
Robt d 29/11/1957 - dob=29/2/1877 (a non-existant date) - been in country 65y.
Margt d 14/2/1943 - pob=Glasgow

Hi Trena

I have really enjoyed the search - thank you for providing me with a few hours of pleasure. Yes, 1907 was when the law changed in England but of course it did happen before that or couples just lived together.

Bring on Brown! (it could be worse, it could be Smith!)

I also noticed that the John mentioned in some of the earlier censuses appears to have also gone to Canada. Do you know anything about him?

My goodness you ladies are quick finding data! I've hardly had time to think, far less organize the first lot of info in paper form, so I will not waste time/credits when I search SP. You certainly had given me much to work with ~ then gave much more!

Thank you for the added and totally unexpected info on James HENNEY & Joseph RIDD / RUDD / KIDD. I did have a quick look for one of them via Ancestry, but was so tired I was becoming confused.

Yes if one spouse married the deceased spouse's sibling, it was considered incest and of course illegal. Scotland as well . Not sure when the law changed. Recalling from memory - c1907? or c1927? time frame. It did happen though.

In for a penny, in for a £, is my general rule when I search SP, though I do prepare / get organized before taking the plunge. You ladies have been fantastic! With that in mind (& an SP search looming), I have another poser, but will post in a new thread. It has been a difficult search for me, yielding nothing, other than driving me bonkers. BROWN is prime surname.

I'm overwhelmed with the data provided on my STEVENSON - MCCLUKY family. Just saying thank you seems inadequate ~ certainly much appreciated.

Trena

Re Joseph Kidd

There is a tree on Ancestry showing Joseph Kidd .. born c.1846 in Renfrewshire.
No parents named.

Joseph married Jane Brown on the 2nd August 1873 in Blythswood Glasgow. His marriage certificate should register his parents names .. but might not.

Is deceased by the time of his daughter's marriage in 1907

1861 census: Same as yours

1871 census: See further down for (complicated) details

1881 Scotland Census about Joseph Kidd
Name: Joseph Kidd
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jane Kidd
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochwinnoch, Renfrew Sh
Registration number: 568
Registration district: Kilbarchan
Civil parish: Kilbarchan
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 43 Napier St
Occupation: Cotton Factory
ED: 10
Household schedule number: 101
Line: 19
Roll: cssct1881_169
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Kidd 35
Jane Kidd 36
Annie B Kidd 6
Joseph Kidd 5
Janet Kidd 3
Jane Kidd 1
Ann Brown 58



1891 Scotland Census about Joseph Kidd
Name: Joseph Kidd
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jane Kidd
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochwinnoch, Renfrewshire
Registration number: 644/3
Registration district: Dennistoun
Civil parish: Glasgow Inner High
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 23 Glenfield St
Occupation: Carding Master in Cotton Factory
ED: 47
Household schedule number: 62
Line: 17
Roll: CSSCT1891_250
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Kidd 45
Jane Kidd 46
Annie B Kidd 16
Joseph Kidd 15
Elizabeth Kidd 9
Janet Kidd 13
John B Kidd 7
George B Kidd 4
Thomas Kidd 10 Mo




1901 Scotland Census about Joseph Kidd
Name: Joseph Kidd
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jane Kidd
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochwinnoch, Renfrewshire
Registration number: 644/3
Registration district: Dennistoun
Civil parish: Glasgow Dennistoun
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 6 Golfhill Drive
Occupation: Overlooker Carne Room Of Collm Mill
ED: 31
Household schedule number: 100
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1901_274
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Kidd 55
Jane Kidd 54
Annie Kidd 26
Joseph Kidd 25
Janet Kidd 20
Elizabeth Kidd 19
John Kidd 17
George Kidd 14
Thomas Kidd 10
Walter Webester 21
Jane Webester 18



However ... this looks to be Joseph Kidd in the 1871 census. Appearing to tie-in with James Hannay ... the other grandson of Mary Stevenson ?

1871 Scotland Census about Joseph Rudd
Name: Joseph Rudd
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochwinnoch, Renfrewshire
Registration number: 644/7
Registration district: Milton
Civil parish: Glasgow St George
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 10 Myrtle St
Occupation: Penter In Cotton Factory (Tenter)
ED: 50
Household schedule number: 68
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1871_135
Household Members: Name Age
James Henney
56
Elizabeth Henney
57
James Henney
25
William Henney
18
Elizabeth Henney
13
Joseph Rudd
25



Also looks likely to be James Hannay .. from the 1841 and 51 census in Lochwinnoch where recorded living with his granny.

My guess is Elizabeth might be the daughter of Mary recorded in the 1841 census previously sent. She was born in Fenwick, Ayrshire.

Marriage ?
James Henney and Elizabeth Stevenson
4th January 1861
Central District, Glasgow, Lanark


(marr cert may verify Mary and John Stevenson as parents)


This family in a fankle .. does this mean James Henney and Elizabeth have known each other since 1836 .. when James Jnr was born but didn't marry until 1861.

Or has James Henney Snr been married to someone else during this time.

Trena, not too sure about John marrying two sisters - that would definitely have been illegal in England at that time but not sure about Scotland. When you have looked at the original image of Margaret's birth, come back and let us know what it says about her parents.

FreeCEN's version of Helen's posted 1851 - they've not done Lochwinnoch 1841 yet.

1851 Census
Piece: SCT1851/570 Place: Lochwinnoch -Renfrewshire Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: Lochwinnoch Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 450 Page: 16 Schedule: 71
Address: East End
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
STEVENSON Mary Head W F 72 Household Affairs Renfrewshire - Greenock
STEVENSON Elizabeth Dau U F 35 Cotton Reeler Ayrshire - Fenwick
STEVENSON Janet Dau U F 30 Cotton Reeler Ayrshire - Dalry
HANNAY James Grnson U M 15 Cotton Reeler Renfrewshire - Lochwinnoch
KIDD Joseph Grnson - M 5 Renfrewshire - Lochwinnoch

Note respelling of youngest's surname

Hi again Ladies,

Just noticed something else:

1861 census, in John MCCLUSKIE (sic) household in parish of Calton in Glasgow, there is a Joseph KIDD age 15.

1851 census Lochwinnoch in Mary STEVENSON's household is a Joseph RIDD age 5

It would appear that quite possibly the two Joseph's are the same boy. RIDD more likely to be KIDD. Would you ladies agree to there being a possible spelling error?

I'm going to check to see what the originals say ... now that I know where to look!
Still having a problem finding the exact family (Mary STEVENSON, possibly with husband John still living) in 1841. I'm so tired, so may be the reason for difficulties.

Trena

Potty & Helen!

Oh my gosh .. thank you .. THANK YOU Both! I had searched SP (as did the chaps at GROS), using the various options with regards to spelling + wild cards. Never did that Margaret born 1857 come up. Surely all 3 of us couldn't have messed up so. Me yes, but them? I had seen the other census with the different spellings (MCLOSKY, MCKLESKY etc) but not being entirely positive of where Margaret was born & beginning to think it was in Ireland, I didn't want to lay claim to any one family in particular from 1841 to 1871. All this now makes more sense and does look like you have found them all.

Wonder whose boys James & Joseph were? Perhaps Janet too had been previously wed & the 5y old her's. Does it by chance give any indication that one of the sisters was either married or widowed?


AnnCardiff ~ Yes that's Margaret & John's wee daughter Janet, one wk old on 1881 census & she again who wed Charles NELSON. I've contact & have met with their 2 x g-gs in NS. So shall certainly pass this info on to him. He'll be chuffed. Also going to call Margaret's granddaughters, my aunts (93y & 78y), to let them know.


Another bonus I believe is seeing the elderly Mary STEVENSON age 72 in 1841 ~ 1) Janet's 1880 d/c gives parents as John STEVENSON school master deceased & Mary WYLIE deceased. So it does look like they may be the couple who wed c1799 Lochwinnoch.

2) In same 1841 household, are a Sarah and a Jane. I was more inclined to believe that perhaps John had married 2 sisters, rather than being a woman named Sarah Jane or even a completely different STEVENSON.

Again, my sincere thanks and appreciation for the help you three ladies have given.

Warmest regards ~ Trena

Thanks Helen. There is another John McClusky in Lochwinnoch in 1841:

1841 Scotland Census
about John McLusky
Name: John McLusky
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Newton Of Ban
Occupation: Ag Lab
Parish Number: 570

Hope Trena comes back otherwise I shall have to buy some credits on scotlandspeople to check out Margaret's birth!

Well done Potty !

Looks like you've cracked the mystery of the missing birth certificate. The 1841 census with Sarah and Janet as sisters also looking promising.



Possible 1841 for John McLuskey living in Lochwinnoch the year he married Sarah Stevenson.

1841 Scotland Census about John McLuskey
Name: John McLuskey
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Calderhaugh Or Main Or High Street
Occupation: Ag Lab



Follow on to the 1841 census previously posted for the Stevenson family

1851 Scotland Census about Mary Stevenson
Name: Mary Stevenson
Age: 72
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1779
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Greenock, Renfrewshire
Parish Number: 570
Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
Town: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: East End
Occupation: Domestick Appress
ED: 6
Page: 16 (click to see others on page)

Household schedule number: 71
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1851_122
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Stevenson
72
Elizabeth Stevenson
35
Janet Stevenson
30
James Hanney
15
Joseph Ridd
5


Mary: born Greenock, Renfrewshire
Elizabeth: born Ayrshire
*Janet: born Dalry, Ayrshire

James: Grandson, born Lochwinnoch
Joseph: Grandson, born Lochwinnoch

Could this be the family in 1851:

1851 Scotland Census
about John McKlesky
Name: John McKlesky
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah McKlesky
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland, Derry
Parish Number: 570
Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
Town: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Old Town
Occupation: Ag Lab
ED: 6
Page: 10 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 47
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1851_122
Household Members: Name Age
John McKlesky 33
Sarah McKlesky 29 b Dalry, Ayrshire
James McKlesky 7 b Lochwinnoch
John McKlesky 3 b Lochwinnoch
Mary McKlesky 11 b Lochwinnoch

Trena, have you looked at the 1841 marriage on scotlandspeople? The image might give some more info. Margaret's birth should also be on scotlandspeople and would have her parents' marriage.

Margaret's birth!

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ9L-VBJ
name: Margaret Mcloskly
gender: Female
baptism/christening date:
baptism/christening place:
birth date: 24 Mar 1857
birthplace: LOCHWINNOCH,RENFREW,SCOTLAND
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: John Mcloskly
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Janet Stevenson
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C11570-1
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 6035516
reference number:
Collection: "Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950," Margaret Mcloskly, 1857

Could this tie in somewhere:

1841 Scotland Census
about Sarah Stevenson
Name: Sarah Stevenson
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Renfrewshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Lochwinnoch
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Johnshill
Occupation: Cotton Worker
Parish Number: 570
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Stevenson 60
Elisabath Stevenson 20
Janet Stevenson 22
Sarah Stevenson 20
James Stevenson 4

Trena, there is a six year age difference between Mary and Margaret on the 1861; on that census John's wife is given as Janet, who would be Margaret's mother. Possibly John was married to a Sarah who died and then remarried Janet who had the same surname, Stevenson.

Civil registration did not start in Scotland until 1855 so both death and remarriage could have happened before that, although, given Margaret's age (4 ) in 1861, I would have thought it was more likely that a marriage would have taken place nearer that date.

Have you found the family in 1851?

?????

Janet Wyatt
Canada, Marriages, 1661-1949
birth: 1881 Glasgow,? Scotland
marriage: 23 Jul 1901 Halifax,? Halifax,? Nova Scotia
parents: John,? Margaret
spouse: Charles Nelson


groom's name: Charles Nelson
groom's birth date: 1873
groom's birthplace: Beaver Bank, Hfx. Co.
groom's age: 28
bride's name: Janet Wyatt
bride's birth date: 1881
bride's birthplace: Glasgow, Scotland
bride's age: 20
marriage date: 23 Jul 1901
marriage place: Halifax, Halifax, Nova Scotia
groom's father's name: Moses
groom's mother's name: Mary
bride's father's name: John
bride's mother's name: Margaret
indexing project (batch) number: M58644-8
system origin: Canada-EASy
source film number: 1298883

Janet Whyatt
Scotland Census, 1881
birth: 1881 Lanarkshire
residence: 1881 St Rollox,? Lanarkshire,? Scotland


name: Janet Whyatt
event type: Census
event date: 1881
gender: Female
age: 0
birthplace: Lanarkshire
registration district: St Rollox
county: Lanarkshire
estimated birth year: 1881

Thank you for all the replies. Margaret MCCLUKY / MCLUSKY's mother was most definitely Jane STEVENSON on her marriage cert. First daughter. 1 week old on 1881 census is named Janet Stevenson WHYATT ~ I have her b/c.

When I first saw the one with Marjory MCDERMID, I was half convinced this was my g-gran's birth .. until I obtained her marriage cert. Also, in all of Scotland between 1855 & 1881, the ONLY death of a STEVENSON with a MCLUSKY or variation, spouse, was Janet STEVENSON married to a John MCLUSKY. Tripled checked by me at GROS in Edinburgh in June 2001 .. but because I did not believe my findings, a staff member checked, 3 x. He also thought something was wrong so had another staff member search. He did, 3 x. They even double checked Margaret's marriage to John WHYATT, Mary's marriage to James MCKENZIE plus Mary's death. Their conclusion: That Janet STEVENSON wife of John MCLUSKY had to be my 2 x great-grandmother. It gave me her parents' names.

Biggest fly in the ointment was Mary had Sarah on her m/c deceased, but her d/c said Janet deceased. Janet STEVENSON was alive when Mary wed.

Are Sarah & Jane sisters? or are they the same person? Will I ever know with certainty? I fear not.

For this family I have 12 UK BMDs, 10 of them Scottish, 2 English (Margaret & John WHYATT had 4 children born in Glasgow; 2 in England; 6 in Canada. First 2 little boys died in Glasgow, so their deaths are 2 of the certs.)

Margaret was married in a Church of Scotland (name escapes me) located on Wishart Street Dennistoun. Both gave Dennistoun addresses for residence at time of marriage. I remember looking them up & both were not far from where church was. Witnesses are unknowns.

For those who aren't familiar with Glasgow, Dennistoun is very close to Townhead / centre of city. Also not far from 193 Castle St where Margaret & husband John WHYATT were living in 1881 census. PLUS, within walking distance of 7 Kennedy Street, where Janet STEVENSON (m. John MCLUSKY) died in 1880.

On Margaret's m/c I believe father worked on railway. On Janet's d/c he is "railway worker". On 1881 census (in WHYATT household) the now widowed John MCLUSKY is "street hawker". I didn't check before coming to your replies, but it most definitely says hawker.

On Mary's m/c it also says railway worker (forget exact wording ~ I've put the certs away for safekeeping & can't remember exactly where! Think our safe .. hubby's not here & I can't recall combination or find the key which will also open it. Our marriage & birth certs are in there, so think that is where I put them as well.)

I know ages can vary on census, but on the Canadian census an actual date is given, as is Margaret's d/c. all are 27 March 1857 Her widowed youngest daughter who lived with her was informant.

Scottish census: Would any of you who have looked at all census years think this is the same family? In all between 1851 & 1871? I can't recall seeing 1841, but know some contain far less info than following census returns & ages rounded to nearest 5. That too can vary. some people rounded up, others rounded down. One of my families in Norwich did half the kids up, rest down.

Main thing that bothered me was the variations in these John MCLUKY's occupations. One census says Delft dealer, I believe. Another ironstone worker I think. Those jobs aren't that far off from each other, but not exactly anything to do with the railway.. If he'd been an ironstone worker, with good quality crockery made from it, I can see where it might be referred to as Delftware. Perhaps that John changed jobs and went into an area where the crockery was actually made.

I know (our) Margaret & Mary both worked in cotton mills. John WHYATT was a cotton weaver (eventually Master Weaver).

Birth places kind of made me wonder, but not overly much. I know the Irish often gave Scottish places rather than say Ireland. Ages for Mary & Margaret are close too, though the Margaret's on census in posts above are more inline with the date on Canadian documents, than her m/c and Glasgow census.

Two other things regarding birthplaces. 1) Margaret told some family members that she had been born in Renfrewshire. Some remember her saying so, others don't. Some believed Glasgow. All of us always knew she'd wed in Glasgow.

2) I know she asked my Dad when she found out he'd be escorting convoys across the Atlantic during WWll, if he ever got to a port along the Clyde, if he'd try to get a photo/picture of Dumbarton Rock. He did, even getting to the isle itself, bringing back a stone from there. It was on her nightstand til the day she died, a year or so later. That made me think she'd (at least) lived somewhere close to the Rock or saw it often enough, it had become a symbol of the home she'd left sometime before 4 August 1884 when her son James was born in Mellor Derbys.

Knowing the last two bits, I was afraid of being influenced in claiming the folk who put Lochwinnoch as birth or marriage places, then of course claiming those on returns who also put Lochwinnoch. I want to be able to claim & record the correct family ... but if those census returns for 1861 & 1871 are correct, plus John & Sarah (aka Jane?) married Lochwinnoch are the correct parents, then why can I not find our Margaret's birth?

I truly thank each of you for all the help. It is much appreciated.

Trena (sorry for length of my reply)