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I have found another daughter of John Talbot - Mary Anne (b 12 Jul 1818 and bap 21 Sep 1818). They were living at Butcher Hall Lane in the City of London and John's occ was Porter - maybe at Smithfields Market.

Interesting, I went and looked for Frances Elizabeth's baptism (as I had a rough birth year and I am certain she is Elizabeth's sister) and found her on 26 September 1813 at St Giles Cripplegate without in London which fits with the area (City of London/Shoreditch/Barbican) so I dont think the Maria would fit our John and Sarah.

Name: Frances Elizh. Talbot
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 26 Sep 1813
Christening Place: ST GILES CRIPPLEGATE,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
Father's Name: John Talbot
Mother's Name: Sarah
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02578-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 380228

Now this is interesting.

A John and Sarah Talbot had a child Maria born Nov 12th and baptised Nov 28th. Under occupation is just the word Poor as are many others on the page but their address is Portsmouth Hants.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Maria Talbot
Name: Maria Talbot
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 28 Nov 1813
Father's Name: John Talbot
Mother's name: Sarah Talbot
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stoke St John the Evangelist
County: Surrey
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

I wonder if this is where John Talbot was from?? and if it is your John and Sarah?

Thats ok Karen. It is nice to help someone who actually answers our questions. Had to feed the hungry so will have another look now but don't hold out much hope.

I am still intrigued by the occupation of John Talbot Elizabeth's father on their marriage cert.

The marriage under his is also a question as I think it could be the same thing for Mr Johnson.

Mel - thankyou I do appreciate that and am new to posting threads, if not to the research side. I now understand why info is put out this way and did not mean to cause offence to anyone - I do appreciate your help

Mary Ann Harris b 1848 and Frances Elizabeth Talbot b 1813.
I think Elizabeth Ann Talbot had 2 elder brothers George b 1802 and Robert b 1806.
If the John Harris who married Sarah Green (11 Jun 1800) are her parents, John wopuld have been born around 1769 (bap 12 Mar 1769 at St Giles Cripplegate). To have 4 children (1802, 1806, 1813 and 1822) seems strange, but strange things sometimes turn out to be correct as women married early and had children well into their 40's!

Karen you have to remember that we don't know anything about this family other than what info you give us.

We therefore have to try and build our own picture of this family and so we put up info you have already got to lead us to further info.

It does help us to find the right people especially with names like Harris and Talbot as I am sure you have found by your own research.

Frances and Richard's marriage - father's occupation on this one is Carman; Frances living at 47 Leonard St, Shoreditch:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Frances Elizabeth Talbot
Name: Frances Elizabeth Talbot
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Richard Jeffs
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 May 1841
Parish: Holborn St Sepulchre
Borough: City of London
Father Name: John Talbot
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Jeffs
Register Type: Parish Register

Emma Harris born 7th April 1850

Maris Elizabeth born 8th April 1852.

Both baptised on the same day.

Address 12 Little Knight Rider St.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Emma Harris
Name: Emma Harris
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Jan 1854
Father's Name: John Harris
Mother's name: Elizabeth Ann Harris
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Mary Magdalene Old Fish Street
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers

What info do you have on Frances and Mary Ann? DOBs?

sorry Reggie, wasnt being rude although it obviously came across that way, I do apologise x

witnesses at John and Eliz marriage were Eliz brother-in-law Richard Jeffs (m to her sister Frances) and John's sister Mary Ann

I DID read your thread......I KNOW what you're looking for, and I WAS trying to help!

The info was posted to help OTHERS

Easier to assimilate when posted as transcribed

Cheerio......................

I saw that 1871 census, but looking back on other censuses this family appears alongside my John and Elizabeth - the ones in Hampstead were publicans

Do the names of the witnesses hold any clues?

My direct line is Henry Hariis b 1863 - the only census I have him on is 1881 when he lived with his brother Robert. I have all other info on him but nothing PRIOR to 1881 apart from birth and baptism (he ended up in Canada)

Could this be them?

1871 England Census
about John J Harris
Name: John J Harris
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
[1819]
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Harris
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Hampstead St John
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Hampstead
Sub-registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 67
Piece: 196
Folio: 56
Page Number: 18
Household Members: Name Age
John J Harris 50
Elizabeth Harris 52
Mary Ann Harris 24
Fanny M Harris 22
Caroline P Harris 10
Emma Odle 28
Thomas A Speach 28

Thanks - if you read my initial thread - I have the 1851 census and marriage - it is really the 2 fathers I am after

1851 John says born Stoke Newington..............by 1861, he'd changed his birthplace to West Hackney.

Doesn't help us all these years down the line!

I posted the various sets of records to help others trying to help you

The fact that Elizabeth had a second forename could make all the difference in trying to find her before her marriage

1861 census


Person: HARRIS, Elizabeth Ann Address: 18, Gartick Hill, St James Garlickhithe, London

HARRIS, John Head Married M 39 1822 Labouring Smith
West Hackney VIEW
HARRIS, Elizabeth Ann Wife Married F 39 1822
...City of London VIEW
HARRIS, Mary Ann Daughter F 13 1848 Scholar
St Lukes VIEW
HARRIS, Emma Daughter F 11 1850 Scholar
Beckham, Surrey VIEW
HARRIS, Maria Daughter F 9 1852 Scholar
St Mary Magdalen City of London VIEW
HARRIS, Robert Son M 5 1856
Quarry Heath City of London, ... VIEW
HARRIS, Elizabeth Daughter F 2 1859
Quarry Heath City of London, .