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Hi - I need some help with finding records of a Robert Outlaw as have been banging my head against a brick wall as there are two born around the same year and county.

"My" Robert Outlaw was born in Dalham, Suffolk around 1841 with wife Hannah

In 1871 Robert is recorded living in Eston, Yorksiire with Hannah and her son Matthew R Lee (my grt grt grandfather).

Hannah nee Crick was married to Matthew Lee in 1851 in Cambridgeshire and had 2 sons Matthew Robert b 1854 and George b 1860. In 1861 they had moved to West Ham , Essex along with Hannah's mother Mary Crick.

By 1871 Hannah seems to be married to Robert Outlaw and living in Eston, Yorkshire with oldest son Matthew Robert Lee. Robert is a ??stone quarryman There are no definate records of Hannah's other son George from then on and the only record I can find for his father Matthew is in 1871 recorded as a widower working as a dock worker( many of my Lee's were in the docks ) in West Ham.

In 1881 Robert and Hannah are on their own and now living in Hermit Street, West Ham , Essex with Robert working as a greengrocer. This also ties in with my grt and grt grt grandparents having greengrocers shops in Hermit Street and surrounding areas.

These are the only records I can find with Robert on - no birth or 1851 or 61 census records and no marriage to Hannah. It is possible that they weren't married as Matthew seems to refer to himself as a widower in 1871.

There are birth and christening records for a Robert Outlaw born in 1842 to Thomas and Mary Outlaw in Packenham, Suffolk but this can't be Hannah's husband as there are records for him from 1851 to 1911 married to Ann(ie) and all born in Packenham not Dalham.

Robert and Hannnah both died in january quarter of 1883 in West Ham

If anyone can find more records relating to my Robert from Dalham, Suffolk I would be delighted or of Matthew Lee - not found in 1881 but a death in 1886.

Thanks alot

Rosie

????

Births Dec 1841 (>99%)
Outlaw Robert Thingoe 13 452

Possible - is Thingoe in Suffolk? Why can't I find him anywhere apart from 1871 and 81 ?

From Wikipedia:

"Thingoe Rural District was a rural district in the county of West Suffolk, England. It was created in 1894. On 1 April 1935 the parish of Depden was transferred to the Clare Rural District. On the same date the district was enlarged by the transfer of the civil parishes of Barnham, Barningham, Coney Weston, Euston, Fakenham Magna, Hepworth, Honington, Hopton, Knettishall, Market Weston, Sapiston, and Thelnetham from the disbanded Brandon Rural District.

It was named after the ancient Hundred of Thingoe ("thing-hoe" - "assembly-mound") and administered from Bury St Edmunds, which it surrounded."

Dalham is 8 miles west of Bury St Edmunds, according to Wikipedia.

Thanks - any luck with other records

I think the Robert that was born in Thingoe is the other one.

Dalham comes under Newmarket?

Possibly his father died soon after his birth, mother remarried, and he is down under new surname for 1851 and 1861, and then reverts to original name.
But that would not explain lack of birth record.

Robert Outlaw
England and Wales Census, 1871
birth: 1841 Dalham, Suffolk
residence: 1871 Old Eston, Eston, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
spouse:Hannah Outlaw
child:Matthew R Lee

I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ROBERT!
This is the only family of Outlaws living in Dalham in 1861. They're also there in 1841, but I can't find them in 1851. But no sign of a Robert.


1861 England Census about Michael Outlaw
Name: Michael Outlaw
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sophia Outlaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Ousden, Suffolk, England

Civil parish: Dalham
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Newmarket
Sub-registration district: Gazeley
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 34
Piece: 1034
Folio: 21
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Michael Outlaw 54
Sophia Outlaw 43
Mary Ann Outlaw 22
Samuel Outlaw 13
Susannah Outlaw 11

I dont think that Hannah and Robert were married as I found a possible record for her first husband Matthew Lee in 1871 in West Ham calling himself a widower - or maybe this wasn't him.

I haven't found a marriage for Hannah and Robert so maybe Robert did have another name. Lack of a birth record is also a mystery.

The 1871 and 1881 census for Hannah and Robert are definately correct although Hannah's place of birth is down as Norfolk and not Cambridge.

Where is Robert ?

Baptism
Day:15
Month:Mar
Year:1857
Forenames:George William
Surname:Lee
Relationship:son of
Father forenames:Matthew
Fathers occupation:lab
Mother forenames:Hannah
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode:otp
Place:Littleport
County:Cambridgeshire

Baptism
Day:26
Month:Mar
Year:1854
Forenames:Matthew Robert
Surname:Lee
Relationship:son of
Father forenames:Matthew
Fathers occupation:lab
Mother forenames:Hannah
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode:otp
Place:Littleport
County:Cambridgeshire

(adding above, if any use)

Chris :)

I agree - they might be Robert's family but where is he - I have looked and looked but not found him living with another family - unless as you say he changed his name

George and Matthew Robert are the correct births -

Could Samuel be Robert

Sorry hubby just come in so will be back later

Baptism
Day:3
Month:Oct
Year:1841
Forenames:Robert
Surname:Outlaw
Relationship:
Father:Michael
Occupation:Labourer
Mother:Sophia
Abode:Dalham
Parish:Dalham, St Mary
County:Suffolk
Record source:Suffolk Baptism Index

Chris :)

edits (Dalham is missing from 1851)

Well done, Chris Ho :)

So that is the correct family in 1861 above. They are also in Dalham in 1841.

Hello - I'm back on the trail

Thanks for the baptism record - looks like the right record for "my" Robert but he's still nowhere to be found in 1861 - Ihe could have been with grandparents or other family members with his name indistinguishable (can't spell !) I'll keep looking possibly at all Outlaws living in or around Suffolk

I wonder why Dalham is missing from 1851.

Thanks everyone - much appreciated :-)

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/help-and-advice/knowledge-base/census/known-issues

(quite a few Parishes nearby missing too)

Chris :)

(below are Parents Burials)

First name(s): Michael
Last name: OUTLAW
Date of burial 1 Oct 1886
Age at death: 80
Calculated year of birth: 1806
Place of burial Dalham
Dedication: St Mary
County: Suffolk

First name(s): Sophia
Last name: OUTLAW
Date of burial 30 Jul 1875
Age at death: 58
Calculated year of birth: 1817
Place of burial Dalham
Dedication: St Mary
County: Suffolk


1881 (Brother)
OUTLOW, Samuel Head Married M 33 1848 Labr In Manuf Work
Wallham, Kent (Suffolk Dalham!)
OUTLOW, Elizabeth Wife Married F 31 1850
Ipswich, Suffolk
OUTLOW, Laura Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar
Imbecile Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
OUTLOW, James I Son Single M 4 1877
Canning Town, Essex
OUTLOW, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 0 1881
Canning Town, Essex
Piece: 1714
Folio: 105
Page: 28
Registration District: West Ham
Civil Parish: West Ham
Municipal Borough:
Address: 15, Grenville St, West Ham
County: Essex

Day:15
Month:Mar
Year:1873
Groom forename:Samuel
Groom surname:OUTLAW
Groom's residence:of Russell St
Groom's condition:bac
Groom's occupation:gardener
Groom's age:24
Groom's father's forename:Michael
Groom's father's surname:
Groom's father's occupation:lab
Bride forename:Elizabeth Ann
Bride surname:STUKELY
Bride's residence:of Russell St
Bride's condition:sp
Bride's occupation:domestic servant
Bride's age:23
Bride's father's forename:James Thomas
Bride's father's surname:
Bride's father's occupation:cab man
By Licence:by banns
Place:Cambridge, St Paul
County:Cambridgeshire,England
Witness 1 forename:Henry
Witness 1 surname:DEAN
Witness 2 forename:Mary Ann
Witness 2 surname:STUKELY

Thanks again Chris - it looks like there was a connection also to Canning Town. My Lee grandfathers all came from Cambridgeshire but it was my 3 x grandfather Matthew Lee who first moved to West Ham, Essex by 1861 taking wife Hannah and 2 sons my grt grt grandfather Matthew Robert and George- George was born in Littleport , Cambridgeshire in 1860 .

Matthew is still in West Ham in 1871 calling himself a widower while Hannah is with Robert Outlaw in Eston Yorkshire with Matthew Robert Lee age 19. They then seem to stay in West Ham until their deaths which were in the same quarter of 1883. I wonder if Robert was living in West Ham where he met Hannah


I can't find any record apart from 1861 for George Lee where he is 1 yr old - there is a George William Lee baptism in March 1857 in Littleport with parents Matthew and Hannah - he could have died as a baby and theyalso named the next child George . If anyone can help me find George it would be great. I know Lee isn't the easiest name to search for so any help would be fantastic.

Cheers

Marriages Dec 1837 (>99%)
OUTLAW Michael Newmarket 14 175
WHITAKER Sophia Newmarket 14 175

Can't find Sophia's birth, but assuming birthplace Coney Weston, Suffolk in 1861 census is correct, then these might be her parents in 1861 (below).
In which case, Robert's not with them, either.

1861 England Census about Michael Whitaker
Name: Michael Whitaker
Age: 75
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Whitaker
Gender: Male
Where born: Coney Weston, Suffolk, England

Civil parish: Coney Weston
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Thetford
Sub-registration district: Thetford
ED, institution, or vessel: 12e
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 3
Piece: 1266
Folio: 45
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Michael Whitaker 75
Mary Whitaker 51
Elizabeth Whitaker 9

Births Mar 1857 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Lee George William Ely 3b 567


Births Dec 1861 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Lee George William Ely 3b 511

(only seeing above, second George, son of William and Susan, Littleport, from Baptism, not seeing a Burial)

Chris :)

Baptism
County Suffolk
Place Coney Weston
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 37
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 10 May 1818
Forename Sophia
Sex -
FatherForename Briggs
MotherForename Elizabeth
FatherSurname WHITAKER
MotherSurname SMITH
Abode Coney Weston
FatherOccupation Labourer

(above if her, on below link)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Chris :)