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Whoever was her father was very generous !! Most unusual for payments to be made for lifetime of a child ...and the "gift" to Mary of a cottage indicates someone of means plus their ackowledgement of the child.
If as you say it may have been an someone from her employers family there may be something in their family papers to indicate this..
The documents for the cottage should show ownership going back pre Mary.May be worth checking that line of enquiry...also possible that details of payments made by ??? to Mary for Sarah is contained in a Will given that these would have continued long after her "father's" death....

That makes sense. The only link we have is that Mary was "gifted" the cottage (rose marry) and payments were made to her regularly for Sarah. The payments continued until Sarah died.

This is all whats been passed down anyway, so I don't know how true it is or how much it may have grown out of proportion to true events...

Unless the father acknowledged the child and went to register her with the mother then he would not be named on the birth certificate. Sometimes a child might be given what appears to be a surname or distinct "first" name as a middle name and this "could" give a clue to parentage, but not proof.

Theres still nothing for Sarah's dad... is this always the case with illegitimate children?

When Sarah died, William re-married and The cottage (Rose Marry) went to his young wife upon his death.

1911 census transcription details for: Rose Mary Dyserth

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN34121 RG78PN1971 RD623 SD1 ED5 SN61
Reg. District: St Asaph
Sub District: St Asaph
Parish: Dyserth
Enum. District: 5
Address: Rose Mary Dyserth
County: Denbighshire
Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
HUGHES, William Head Married M 38 1873 Railway Platelayer Carnarvon Banger
HUGHES, Sarah Wife Married16 years F 38 1873 Dressmaker Flint Dyserth
HUGHES, Thomas G Son Single M 15 1896 Gardener Apprentice Flint Dyserth
HUGHES, Eleanor M Daughter F 13 1898 School Flint Dyserth
HUGHES, William H Son M 10 1901 School Flint Dyserth
HUGHES, Arthur Ll Son M 7 1904 School Flint Dyserth
HUGHES, Joseph D Son M 5 1906 School Flint Dyserth
HUGHES, Robert L Son M 1 1910 Flint Dyserth

6 children born alive, 6 living in 1911

1901 census shows Eleanor M Hughes so ?? her birth
Civil Registration event: Birth

Name: HUGHES, Eleanor Mary
Registration district: St. Asaph
County: Denbighshire
Year of registration: 1898
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 11B
Page no: 298

Well I found this ...wonder if it is Joseph (bro.of Sarah)


Joseph Roberts in household of Thomas Griffith, "England and Wales Census, 1871"Name: Joseph Roberts
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 64
Relationship to Head of Household: Lodger
Birthplace: Whiteford, Flintshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: St Asaph
Sub-District: St Asaph
Parish: Dysuth
County: Denbighshire
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Self Thomas Griffith M 48 Whiteford, Flintshire
Wife Eliza Griffith F 38 St Asaph, Flintshire
Son William Griffith M 12 Dysuth, Flintshire
Daughter Eliza Griffith F 11 Dysuth, Flintshire
Daughter Elizabeth Griffith F 8 Dysuth, Flintshire
Son Levi Griffith M 6 Dysuth, Flintshire
Daughter Hanah Griffith F 4 Dysuth, Flintshire
Daughter Anne Griffith F 1 Dysuth, Flintshire
**Lodger Joseph Roberts M 64 Whiteford, Flintshire ***

No I cannot find them 1861 either....

I didn't know which was right, but now I've looked it up!

Trelawnyd (formerly Newmarket)

Trelawnyd is one of the ancient parishes of Flintshire. It was originally part of the parish of Dyserth, and appears to have become a separate parish some time between 1254 and 1291. It comprises four townships - Gop, Graig, Pentreffyddion and Rhydlyfnwyd.
The name "Newmarket", now discontinued, dates back to 1700, in which year John Wynne of Copperlany obtained a faculty from the Bishop's Registry to change the name. John Wynne had already rebuilt most of the village, established several branches of industry, and set up a weekly market and an annual fair. The village and parish continued to be called Newmarket until 1954, when it was officially renamed as Trelawnyd.

An interesting snippet for family historians:

"Newmarket has for some years been the headquarters of the Mormonites, who have also a small meeting house here. These have however decreased very much of late, owing to emigration and other causes. Thirteen are at this present moment preparing to depart to the city of the Salt-Lake".
[From Handbook of the Vale of Clwyd , William Davis, 1856]


PS Not found them 1861 yet!

Stuart...Eyes were nearly crossed looking for pre 1871...!! (Never checked out Wales before)

New Marske = Newmarket...!!!

No wonder I couldnt find anything...

1841 - Thomas a Carpenter, John, Joseph and Thomas are Lead Workers

1841 census transcription details for: Four Crosses, Dyserth

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1411
Book/Folio: 1/16
Page: 27
Reg. District: St Asaph
Sub District: St Asaph
Parish: Dyserth
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Four Crosses, Dyserth
County: Flintshire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
GRIFFITHS, Thomas M 46 1795 Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Sarah F 46 1795 Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Martha F 22 1819 Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, John M 20 1821 Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Joseph M 18 1823 Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Thomas M 12 1829 Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, David M 9 1832 Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Mary F 6 1835 Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Robert M 4 1837 Flintshire
ROBERTS, Joseph M 33 1808 Flintshire

Looks like Sarah was named after her grandmother

1851 census transcription details for: Rosemary Lane, Dyserth

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 2506
Folio: 87
Page: 48
Reg. District: Saint Asaph
Sub District: St Asaph
Parish: Dyserth
Enum. District: 4
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Rosemary Lane, Dyserth
County: Denbighshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
GRIFFITHS, Thomas Head Married M 56 1795 CarpenterNewmarket, Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Sarah Wife Married F 56 1795 Whitford, Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, John Son Unmarried M 30 1821 Lead Miner Whitford, Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Thomas Son Unmarried M 22 1829 Lead Miner Whitford, Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, David Son Unmarried M 19 1832 Lead Miner Whitford, Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 17 1834 House Servant Whitford, Flintshire
GRIFFITHS, Robert Son M 15 1836 Scholar Whitford, Flintshire
ROBERTS, Joseph Brother Unmarried M 44 1807 Lead Miner Whitford, Flintshire

Erin - so easy to cross post, wish the page would update without having to refresh, especially when you go onto the next page!!

Now to try and find MAry/Thomas pre 1871!

Stuart...Thank you...!!
1881 Census posted (13.16) ...so we are after a marriage betweeen 1871..1881...


Crossed again...!!

??
Civil Registration event: Marriage

Name: JONES, William
Registration district: St. Asaph
County: Denbighshire
Year of registration: 1876
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 11B
Page no: 605
MarriageFinder: William Jones married one of the following people:

GRIFFITHS, Mary
JONES, Anne
DAVIES, John

1881 census transcription details for: Rose Marry, Dyserth (Flint)

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 5527
Folio: 63
Page: 28
Reg. District: St Asaph
Sub District: St Asaph
Parish: Dyserth (Flint)
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Rose Marry, Dyserth (Flint)
County: Denbighshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
JONES, William Head Married M 61 1820 General Laborer Rhuddlan, Flintshire, Wales
JONES, Mary Wife Married F 47 1834 Dressmaker Lock Whitford, Flintshire, Wales
GRIFFITHS, Sarah Daughter Single F 8 1873 ScholarDyserth, Flintshire, Wales

So much information... I don't know how to thank you all for your help with this. It means so much to me, and to find that Sarah was a dressmaker too! Her daughter Eunice was as well... shame it skipped over Eleanor! I think I may have to take a trip back to Dyserth soon. I'm feeling all nostalgic!

Erin

Looks like you are right with the 1871.
Thomas is a Carpenter and MAry a dressmaker, so looks like she married after 1871 and pre 1891. Will have a look for 1881

Stuart ..Can you check the 1871 Census for the occup.of the said Mary living with her father Thomas please...I dont have facility...Thank you.

1841 Census Record
Personal Information
Name Mary Griffiths
Age 6
Estimated Year of Birth 1835
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation Juvenile
Address Coed Llydan Bach
District Llanrwst Union, Llanrwst
Parish Llanrwst
Administrative County Denbighshire
Birth Place Denbighshire
Birth County Denbighshire
Reference Information
Folio 19/5
Page 3
Piece 1403