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Hello!

I'm having difficulty deciphering whether this is a direct decendant of mind or not.

Jonathan Helliwell was/is my great great grandfather. I'm sure he had a son called Seth (I have his birth cert. confirming that he was born 29/01/1883 in Luddendenfoot, Yorkshire) and that he was married to Elizabeth (formerly) Stansfield.

Further down the years they are registered in the census as being publicans of the Punch Bowl pub in Hipperholme.However I cannot find anything for record of his parents, no birth cert of marriage cert which is odd.

I have obtained a birth cert for a Jonathan Helliwell born 27/09/1953 Dean Mill Midgley saying that he was a papermaker (Vol 9a, page 410) but I'm not convinved that it's him.

I would be grateful if anyone could help me out, thank you in advance,

Stephanie

Forgive my pointing this out.....but he can't be your descendant.............

He may be your ancestor...............in which case you are his descendant

You should work backwards..............verifying info at every stage.

WHO was married to Stansfield?

Until 1875, there were no penalties for NOT registering births...so don't be surprised if you can't find one............

Was SETH definitely your ancestor?

You say you have his birth cert...............so who are the named parents?

What is the father's stated occupation?

No marriage on freebmd for Elizabeth Stansfield to anyone named Helliwell

Please tell us how you got back to these people..............

The family in 1901 - living at the Punch Bowl;


1901 England Census
about Seth Helliwell
Name:
Seth Helliwell
Age:18
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1883
Relation:
Son
Father's Name:
Jonathan Helliwell
Mother's Name:
Elizabeth Helliwell

Where born:
Luddenden Foot, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish:
Hipperholme


Jonathan Helliwell 47 b Sowerby
Elizabeth Helliwell 49 bDulesgate, Lancashire
Seth Helliwell 18
Fred Squires 22
Sarah A Corner 23

Right........let's try to work back



1911 census

Person: HELLIWELL, Seth Address: 124 Gibbet St HX

HELLIWELL, Elizabeth Head Married F 59 1852 Retired Publican Todmorden Yorkshire VIEW
STANSFIELD, John Brother Single M 62 1849 Retired Grocer Todmorden Yorkshire VIEW
HELLIWELL, Seth Son Married M 28 1883 Engineer Millwright Luddenden Rd Yorkshire VIEW
HELLIWELL, Helen Daughter In Law Married3 years F 24 1887 Brighouse Yorkshire VIEW
HELLIWELL, James Stansfield Grandson M 3 1908 Brighouse Yorkshire VIEW RG number: RG14 Piece: 26484 Reference: RG14PN26484 RG78PN1528B RD496 SD5 ED33 SN115 Registration District: Halifax Sub District: Halifax South Enumeration District: 33 Parish: Halifax Address: 124 Gibbet St HX County: Yorkshire (West riding) refine search back to 1911 census search resultsBack to all search results

1901 census


Person: HELLIWELL, Seth Address: Punch Bowl Inn, Hipperholme

HELLIWELL, Jonathan Head Married M 47 1854 Publican
Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLIWELL, Elizabeth Wife Married F 49 1852
Dulesgate, Lancashire VIEW
HELLIWELL, Seth Son Single M 18 1883 Barman
Luddenden Foot, Yorkshire VIEW
SQUIRES, Fred Servant Single M 22 1879 Waiter (Public House)
Clifton, Yorkshire VIEW
CORNER, Sarah A Servant Married F 23 1878 General Servant (Domestic)
Rochdale, Lancashire

Hello Stephanie, welcome to the boards.

Could you just clarify who was a papermaker when he was born in 1953?

?????????

1881 census


Person: HELLIWELL, Jonathan Address: Short Riggen, Sowerby

HELLIWELL, Mary Head Widow F 66 1815 Farmer 12 Acres
Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLIWELL, Eli Son Single M 35 1846 Wool Sorter (Len)
Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLIWELL, Jonathan Son Single M 26 1855 Spinner Wool
Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLIWELL, Emma J Grand Daughter Single F 16 1865 Spinner Cotton
Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLIWELL, William Grand Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar
Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW

Elizabeth in 1911 - John Stansfield shown as brother; POB given as Todmorden, Yorkshire:

Name:
Elizabeth Helliwell

Age in 1911:
59

Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1852

Relation to Head:
Head

Gender:
Female

Birth Place:
Todmorden, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish:
Halifax

County/Island:
Yorkshire-West Riding

Country:
England

Street Address:
124 Gibbet St Halifax

Marital Status:
Widowed

Occupation:
Retired Publican

Registration District:
Halifax

Registration District Number:
496

Sub-registration District:
Halifax South

ED, institution, or vessel:
33

Piece:
26484

Household Members:


Name

Age

Elizabeth Helliwell 59
John Stansfield 62
Seth Helliwell 28
Helen Helliwell 24
James Stansfield Helliwell 3

Possible for Jonathan in 1881:
1881 England Census
about Jonathan Helliwell
Name:
Jonathan Helliwell
Age:
26
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1855

Relation:
Son
Mother's Name:
Mary Helliwell
Where born:
Halifax, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish:
Sowerby in Halifax

Sub-registration District:
Sowerby


Mary Helliwell 66
Eli Helliwell 35
Jonathan Helliwell 26
Emma J. Helliwell 16
William Helliwell 6

1891 census


Person: HELLEWELL, Jonathan Address: Huddersfield Road, Wike Or Wyke, Wyke

HELLEWELL, Jonathan Head Married M 37 1854
Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLEWELL, Elizabeth Wife Married F 39 1852
Yorkshire, Dutes Gate VIEW
HELLEWELL, Seth Son Single M 8 1883
Luddendenfoot, Yorkshire VIEW
NEEDHAM, Sarah Servant Single F 21 1870
Pocklington, Yorkshire VIEW
JOLLY, Polly Servant Single F 25 1866
Sheffield, Yorkshire VIEW
KILSHON, Robert Servant Single M 26 1865
Dewsbury, Yorkshire

Many thanks! forgive me I am quite new to this.

I have the above records, thank you for summarising them.

Reggie how can I be sure that the 1881 census record you have listed is Jonathan's family?

MarieCeleste I got the papermaker reference from a birth cert for Jonathan Helliwell born 1853 that I found and ordered.

1871 England Census
about Abraham Hellewell
Name:
Abraham Hellewell

Age:57

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1814
Spouse's Name:
Mary Hellewell
Where born:
Sowerby, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish:
Sowerby

Ecclesiastical parish:
St Peter

Abraham Hellewell 57
Mary Hellewell 57
Eley Hellewell 25
John Hellewell 19
Jonathan Hellewell 16

Possible marriage for Abraham and Mary:

Name:
Abraham Helliwell

Marriage or Bann Date:
3 Apr 1836

Parish:
Halifax, St John the Baptist

Spouse's Name:
Mary Crossley

1851 census


Person: HELLEWELL, Eli Address: 2, Murr Hill

HELLEWELL, Abraham Head Married M 38 1813 Carpet Weaver
Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLEWELL, Mary Wife Married F 37 1814
Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLEWELL, William Son Unmarried M 15 1836 Wool Comber
Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLEWELL, Thomas Son Unmarried M 12 1839 Worsted Doffer At Worsted Mill
Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLEWELL, Sarah Ann Daughter F 8 1843 Sunday Scholar
Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLEWELL, Eli Son M 6 1845
Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW
HELLEWELL, Crossley Son M 2 1849
Sowerby, Yorkshire

More than one possible birth...................I would think the later one is the more likely

Births Dec 1853 (>99%)
HELLIWELL Jonathan Halifax 9a 410

Births Sep 1854 (>99%)
HELLAWELL Jonathan Halifax 9a 433

As Jonathan and Elizabeth do not appear to have married............you are faced with the problem of identifying his father.

I see - so the birth was 1853 not 1953!

Stephanie, which one of Jonathan's children are you descended from? Have you got Elizabeth's maiden name from a birth certificate?

There's a possibility she may have been previously married.

I have the birth certificate for Seth and it states his mother as Elizabeth Helliwell (formerly Stansfield) and his father as Jonathan so it looks as if they were married. Could it be that their marriage was never recorded or that they pretended to be married?!

Baptism (Find My Past)
Day:23
Month:Oct
Year:1853
Forename:Jonathan
Surname:Halliwell
Relationship:Son
Fathers Forename:Jonathan
Fathers Occupation:Paper Maker
Fathers Abode:Midgley
Mothers Forename:Hannah
Mothers Abode:
Birth Date:27 Sept 1853
Place:Luddenden, St Mary
County:Yorkshire
Notes:
Record source:Luddenden Baptisms
Data provider:Calderdale Family History Society

(above if any help anywhere!)

Chris :)

What are the parents' names on the 1853 birth cert?