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I am trying to trace a great uncle. His name is Herbert Dearman and he was born in Hitchin in 1880. His father was James John Dearman b.1850 and his mother Lydia Bush b.1849. I can find no reference for Herbert after 1901 census until 1920 when he was on RMS Osterley bound for Sydney Australia. On further investigation I found a death notice for H. Dearman in 1929 which stated he died at sea on board Themosticles. Coincidentally these two ships were in the same fleet. Any help in finding out whether these two people are the same would be greatly appreciated.

Anne

For ref.



1891 census transcription details for: 6, Tapster Street, Chipping Barnet, Barnet
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 1053
Folio: 32
Page: 8
Reg. District: Barnet
Sub District: Barnet
Parish: Chipping Barnet
Enum. District: 2
Ecclesiastical District: St John the Baptist
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 6, Tapster Street, Chipping Barnet, Barnet
County: Middlesex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
DEARMAN, James Head Married M 40 1851 Carman
Baldock, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, Edith Wife Married F 29 1862
Barnet, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, George Son M 12 1879 Scholar
Baldock, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, Herbert Son M 10 1881 Scholar
Baldock, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, Harry Son M 5 1886
Baldock, Hertfordshire
MORRIS, Kate Stepdaughter F 3 1888
Barnet, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, George Lodger Married M 30 1861 Carman
Baldock, Hertfordshire


Registration event: death
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Name: DEARMAN, Herbert
Date of death: 8 October 1929
Age:
Place of death: At Sea
Place of birth: British Middlesex
Belonging to service:
Ship's name: Themistocles
Series: BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea
Box: 0087
Page: 50

Are you sure this is him? He was a labourer going on to NZ.


UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 about Mr H Dearman
Name: Mr H Dearman
Gender: Male
Age: 38
Birth Date: abt 1882
Departure Date: 22 May 1920
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Sydney, Australia
Ship Name: Osterley

Can you tell me where I can get a copy of the Death Certificate.

Anne

Hi Anne, lets see if we can save you the cost of buying the death certificate.

On the actual image of the 1929 at sea death record that alviegal posted the transcription for, there is the following information:

Herbert Dearman, age 46, a portmanteau maker. British, born Middlesex.

Home address was 25 Harrow Road, Paddington. There is another address - 11 Grey Street, Bloemfontein and this has OFS after it. (Perhaps it was the address at his destination?)

Cause of death was Haemoptyses, secondary to pulmonary pthisisis.

This would be the outward voyage for the man who died:

UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name: Mr H Dearman
Gender: Male
Age: 42
Birth Date: abt 1887
Departure Date: 21 Sep 1929
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Cape Town, South Africa
Ship Name: Themistocles
Shipping Line: White Star-Aberdeen
Official Number: 129349
Master: A D Young

A bit of a discrepancy on the age, occupation stated as clerk. Headed to Capetown, intended to live in South Africa.

This would be him in 1911, occupation matches the death record:

ROWSELL, Annie Head Widow F 45 1866 Middlesex Enfield
ROWSELL, William Son Single M 18 1893 Groom Gardner Domestic Middlesex Enfield
ROWSELL, Charles Son M 13 1898 School Middlesex Enfield
DEARMAN, Herbert Nephew Single M 25 1886 Hat Case Maker Middlesex Enfield
DEARMAN, Lily Niece Single F 17 1894 Servant Domestic Middlesex Enfield

RG number: RG14 Piece: 7419
Reference: RG14PN7419 RG78PN358 RD132 SD6 ED12 SN98
Registration District: Edmonton
Sub District: Enfield
Enumeration District: 12
Parish: Enfield

Address: 23 Lea Road Enfield Middlesex County: Middlesex

Could this be your Herbert?

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920

Name: Herbert Dearman
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Age at enlistment: 18
Birth County: Herts
Document Year: 1899
Regimental Number: 5435
Number of images: 6

The record is quite faded and hard to make out.

He was a seaman, born Baldock, Herts. His father was Jas Dearman of 2 Moxon Street, High Barnet, Herts.

Looks like he served in South Africa in 1899.

Hi MarieCeleste

I think he might have enlisted as early as possible as there was some unpleasantness at home.

Thank you so much for all your help. Secretly I knew you wouldn't let me down.

Sincerely

Anne :-D

Have also found his service records on the Chelsea pensioners - much clearer to read. I'm quite certain given the father's name and birthplace that he's your Herbert.

He was in Gibraltar from 1898 to 1899 then South Africa 1899 to 1902. He was very well decorated. His discharge was granted in York in 1909.

However, the really important bit was that on his records there is:

19/01/1904 - Permitted to reside in Canada

Then, on his 1909 discharge it states intended residence was 14 William Street, Ontario Canada.

On his records he was in the reserves from 1903 to 1909 so that must have been the basis of him being in Canada.

Here he is:

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935

Name: Herbert Dearman
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Date of Arrival: 14 Feb 1904
Vessel: Lake Champlain
Port of Arrival: St John, New Brunswick
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-505

Not much info, other than he's a labourer and going to Toronto.

He enlisted in the Canadian Army as Harry Dearman

Links to his record
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.02-e.php?image_url=http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc002/284611a.gif&id_nbr=350445

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.02-e.php?image_url=http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc002/284611b.gif&id_nbr=350445

He says he's born 1879 Baldock but that's obviously a mistake (ADDED: the date seems right but has given year as 1879 instead of 1880). Gives his next of kin as G Dearman in Herts, which must be brother George.

Well done MC. Had to go and see to hungry children but you've managed to sort things out nicely. ;-)

Liz

?? Under Franklin Avenue, Lansing PO.


Canada, Voters Lists, 1935-1980 about Harry Dearman
Name: Harry Dearman
Location: York, Ontario
Occupation: Retired
Electoral District: York North
Year: 1940

He got himself around!

California, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1882-1957

Name: Harry Dearman
Arrival Date: 12 Mar 1923
Age: 41
Birth Date: abt 1882
Birthplace: Batdock, England
Gender: Male
Ethnicity: English
Ship Name: R M S Tahiti
Port of Arrival: San Francisco
Port of Departure: Wellington, New Zealand
Destination: Toronto, Canada
Last Residence: Canada
Archive information (series:roll number): M1410:169

He's listed as a labourer, single and his permanent residence was Toronto. He was in transit from Auckland NZ where he'd been visiting a friend Capt Whitmore.

California, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1882-1957 about Harry Dearman
Name: Harry Dearman
Arrival Date: 12 Mar 1923
Age: 41
Birth Date: abt 1882
Birthplace: Batdock, England
Gender: Male
Ethnicity: English
Ship Name: R M S Tahiti
Port of Arrival: San Francisco
Port of Departure: Wellington, New Zealand
Destination: Toronto, Canada
Last Residence: Canada
Archive information (series:roll number): M1410:169


Snap!!

Can't find much more on him - if he stayed in Canada then his death would probably be too recent to find a record under Canadian privacy rules.

Although he was in Canada from 1904 can't find him on their 1911.

It is very confusing. Are you saying the person who died on Themistocles is not Herbert Dearman, son of James John Dearman. Its strange he used the name Harry as that is his brother's name, my husband's grandfather. Harry was in one of the Scottish Regiments having enlisted in about 1902 as a Boy Drummer and served in WW1 and was wounded at Ypres.

Anne

Anne, I am quite sure that the Herbert Dearman who died on the Themistocles is not your Herbert.

This, I'm quite sure, is the 1901 for the chap who died on the ship (recorded as Bertie, short for Herbert?):

ROWSELL, William Head Married M 46 1855 House Painter Enfield, Middlesex
ROWSELL, Annie Wife Married F 37 1864 Enfield, Middlesex
ROWSELL, Frederick Son Single M 16 1885 Gardener (Domestic) Enfield, Middlesex
ROWSELL, William Son Single M 8 1893 Enfield, Middlesex
ROWSELL, Charles Son Single M 3 1898 Enfield, Middlesex
WISEMAN, Sarah Mother-In-Law Widow F 72 1829 Laundress Enfield, Middlesex
DEARMAN, Bertie Nephew Single M 16 1885 Portmanteau Maker Enfield, Middlesex

Piece: 1272 Folio: 13 Page: 18
Registration District: Edmonton
Civil Parish: Enfield

Address: 19, Laurel Bank Road, Enfield County: Middlesex
.........................................................................................................................

You said you had Herbert on the 1901 - where was that?

The Canadian attestation papers match up with the UK service records, the latter clearly state that Herbert was given leave to live in Canada and we've followed him through. I've no idea why he called himself Harry when he had a brother of that name but I can see how it could be used as a nickname for Herbert, plus he was a long way from his brother.

On those UK service papers he gives his father as Jas Dearman of 2 Moxon Street - here's the family there in 1901:

DEARMAN, James Head Married M 49 1852 Furniture Porter Redhill, Surrey
DEARMAN, Edith Wife Married F 39 1862 Barnet, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, George Son Single M 22 1879 Able Bodied Seaman Merchant Service Baldock, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, Harry Son Single M 15 1886 Printer's Boy Welwyn, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, Kate Daughter Single F 13 1888 Dental Factory Assistant Barnet, Hertfordshire
DEARMAN, Edith Daughter Single F 7 1894 Barnet, Hertfordshire
BARWELL, Harry Boarder Single M 23 1878 Electrician East Horndon, Essex

Piece: 1230 Folio: 16 Page: 23
Registration District: Barnet
Civil Parish: Chipping Barton (Herts)

Address: 2, Moxon Street, Chipping Barton (Herts) County: Middlesex

(Edith was James' second wife following the death of Lydia in 1888)