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Hi I'm researching on behalf of my wife and father in law. There's an obvious link to Greece (physical) in both of them, and the family apocrypha was that one Anthony Lewis came to Liverpool in the early years of the 20th Century from Greece and stayed.

This, unsurprisingly, turns out to be inaccurate. Said Anthony Lewis (b 1889 as Antonio) was the son of the above George Lewis and wife Jane (possibly nee McAuley or McSweeny, Irish by birth), and the record for the 1891 census shows them living in 27 Aspinall St, Kirkdale, W. Derby, Liverpool, with George as a cotton porter and his wife Jane as a dressmaker. There are also 3 old children: Eugene, 14, born in Ireland, Florence, 10, Helen, 3 and Antonio 1 - the latter 3 born in Liverpool. George is about 52 and Jane 33 at the time of the census. About 12 months later, George was dead, poor sod.

And that's really about it for George Lewis, the Greek who imparted his genes into my wife's side, and therefore is responsible for her rather Greek looks, and, I'm sure her enduring love of yigantes, lobster and haloumi.

I've posted on Rootschat.com, where people have been pretty helpful, but having looked further, George (probably Yiorgos) Lewis (possibly Louis) isn't on the 1881 census, or 1871 census - nor is a Jane McAuley or McSweeney in the right place, so I'm a bit stumped as to where else to look.

I've been in touch with the Greek Orthodox Church in Britain and have been supplied the email for their Liverpool representative, but I've not had a reply from him yet.

So. Can anyone else help? When did George fetch up in Liverpool? Where did he come from in Greece? How come he travelled at, apparently, quite an age? How can I find out more about the rare (I'm told) ????? surname in Greece?

Any help gratefully accepted.

Cheers,
Si

I should add that the ????? thing above was the software here replacing the Greek spelling of 'Louis' with QMs. Dammit, on a genealogy site? That's just daft.

I wonder if this thread has some connection (although from a different poster) ??

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/957850

Dea Xxx

Oh - I have checked back and I see that you had posted on this old thread and so had started a new one of your own , as directed. - apologies !!

Good look with your search, I hope you come up with the answers you are looking for.

Dea Xxx

Hi Dea,

Thanks for the encouragement! I've not been able to make contact with the person on the other thread, despite a couple of PMs, and the Greek Orthodox Church in Liverpool haven't got back to me yet, so I find myself swinging in the breeze.

But here's some stuff I've been pondering.

the 1891 census, if accurate - and I suspect it is - shows a bloke of 52 with an Irish woman nearly 20 years younger than him, with one son born in Ireland (presumably not George's), daughters of 10 and 3 - possibly his - and a baby son 1 year old, which I'm guessing is his.

Now, if we go back to Florence's birth, we're back to 1881, so why wouldn't she be on the census if she was born in Liverpool? Who was the father? George? Someone else?

I can see how Helen (Eleni?) and Antonio (Adonis?) would have come about, and why they might well have been named as they were - it was common for Greeks to name their kids after their parents - but that still leaves the point that George has started his family with Jane (apparently) very late indeed, possibly at the ripe age of 48 or 49. Would that have been common I wonder?

The whole thing looks very odd to me, so I would appreciate advice from those rather more learned than me.

Thanks,
Si

Hello Si, not so much advice but an opinion! You pondered about a much younger Irish girl with a considerably older spouse - well if she had an illegitimate child she possibly wouldn't be the first choice of the eligible young local men. She needs a roof over her and her child's head, George comes along and is happy to take her and said child on, she gets what she needs and he gets a bonny young wife.

"Hello Si, not so much advice but an opinion! You pondered about a much younger Irish girl with a considerably older spouse - well if she had an illegitimate child she possibly wouldn't be the first choice of the eligible young local men. She needs a roof over her and her child's head, George comes along and is happy to take her and said child on, she gets what she needs and he gets a bonny young wife."

That makes a lot of sense. Certainly the gap between the children implies a single woman (maybe widowed? can't tell yet) upping sticks to Liverpool from Ireland with a child in tow.

The other three kids? I'm open to persuasion. the youngest two - I'd say, George's without a doubt - but Florence? Who can say. Perhaps the eldest two were from a prior attachment in Ireland. Either way, she needed a hand, and George, the older Greek immigrant, got himself an instant family, and, as you say a much younger wife. Possibly not such an unusual trade off in those times.

Have you actually ordered any of the children's birth certificates to confirm Jane's maiden name?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Antonio Lewis
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1889
Registration District: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 392

It's a possibility that Florence wasn't George's, I'm just guessing that because of the gap between the children - there's 7 years between Helen and Florence. If you establish Jane's correct name then it's likely that the elder two would have been registered in Jane's maiden name.

"Have you actually ordered any of the children's birth certificates to confirm Jane's maiden name?"

Not yet - a bit skint at the mo! Will do thobut.

"England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Antonio Lewis
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1889
Registration District: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 392"

Yeah, got that.

"It's a possibility that Florence wasn't George's, I'm just guessing that because of the gap between the children - there's 7 years between Helen and Florence. If you establish Jane's correct name then it's likely that the elder two would have been registered in Jane's maiden name."

My thoughts in a nutshell. I'm still trying to track down the actual George Lewis/Jane ????????? wedding. One for tomorrow perhaps....

Thanks,
Si

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1879
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LEWIS George MCSWEENEY Jane Kirkdale, St. Aidan Liverpool 2015WD/1/339


Marriages Jun 1879 (>99%)
Cowell Elizabeth Jane W. Derby 8b 551
view
LEWIS George W. Derby 8b 551 xxxxxx

McSweeney Jane W. Derby 8b 551 xxxxxx

STUART James West Derby 8b 551

So, by 1901 Jane was remarried and called Hayes, having married and named her father as Patrick McAuley. She and two youngest children on 1901 census, then she is with married daughter Helen (Helena/Eleanor) in 1911 as a widow, born Liverpool?

So, wonder if she was married before George, hence the McSweeney name?

So hopefully Antonio's birth certificate would show her maiden and previous married name (assuming the records found are the right ones)?

This looks like George, Jane & Florence in 1881. They appear to be boarders, but the rest of the household is not shown on this transcription and as I don't have a sub I am unable to view the image.

No sign of Eugene.


1881 England Census
Name: George Lees
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relationship to Head: Brother (Head) (Head).......Boarder?
Gender: Male
Where born: Greece
Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 12 Richmond Row
Marital Status: Married

Subscribe now to see this information.
Occupation: Publican
Registration District: Liverpool
Sub-registration District: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3631
Folio: 107
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
George Lees 40
Jane Lees 24.......Boarder's Wife......Dressmaker.....Ireland
Florence M. Lees .......Liverpool
Ellen Butler 18.......Sister.....Barmaid......Ireland
Mary Ann Moor 22......Lodger.....liverpool

In Christina's 1881 census, Head of the household is Patrick Higgins, 47 Ireland - with wife and children and a couple of nephews. Then a list of lodgers, including George/Jane/Florence. I think Ellen Butler is the head's sister and nothing to do with George/Jane.

So, where is Eugene??

A possible for Jane?

Jane M'Cauley
Date of Registration:1875
Registration District:Strabane
Volume:12
Page Number:308
FHL Film Number:101252
Records on Page:

Name

Daniel Quin
Bessie Gordon
Jane M'Cauley
Michael Divine
Rebecca Crawford
John M'Sweaney <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ann Rush
Jane M'Cauley <<<<<<<<<
James Donnelly

The marriage I referred to last night just in case it helps:

Jane Lewis (Widow)
Birth Year:abt 1859
Age:39

Marriage Date:7 Jun 1898
Parish:Kirkdale, St Paul

Spouse's Name:Patrick Hayes (widower, 44, Marine fireman)
Father's Name:Patrick McAuley (deceased, soldier)
Spouse Father's Name:Jeremiah Hayes (deceased labourer)
Reference Number:283 SPK/3/

Him from 22 Rockingham St, her from 15. Witnesses Michael Driscoll & Mary Mahoney.

States in margin "copy given 17/11/1909" maybe because he died??

Florence was 11 months old in 1881 so born around April 1880. So IF the June 1879 marriage is correct then she could quite conceivably (please excuse the pun) be George's. The only GRO that matches a West Derby birth is a September 1880 one.

How sure are you that the 1879 marriage in St Aiden is your George? George Lewis is not exactly an uncommon name and as we know that the 1898 marriage to Patrick Hayes IS her, and she gives her father as Patrick McCauley (deceased) soldier then it would mean that Jane McCauley would have to have married a McSweeney when she was VERY young (the 1898 marriage shows her to have been born in 1859). So if Flip's entry above is correct then she was only 16 (unless of course she fibbed in 1898)

How about this for Eugene??

Name: Eugene P O Connell McSweeny
Date of Registration: 1876
Registration District: Strabane
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 12
Page: 338
FHL Film Number: 101053

Bingo!

Name: Eugene P. O'Connel Mcsweeny
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 27 Jun 1876
Birth Place: Donegal, Ireland
Father's Name: John Mcsweeny
Mother's Name: Jane Mc Cawley
FHL Film Number: 255958

Jude, I think the earlier census has her born c1857 so slightly older than on her 1898 marriage. That looks good for Eugene though, same area as the possible marriage.

ADDED: Just seen you've got the christening as well :-D